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| alistra | oh, who's going to tell me, why during the compilation, there are ascii fractals written to stdout | 00:39 |
|---|---|---|
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| Alex_Gaynor | alistra: http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#why-does-pypy-draw-a-mandelbrot-fractal-while-translating | 00:40 |
| alistra | it's not fun :| | 00:41 |
| alistra | also haven't tried too hard, but i see clang is not supported :P | 00:42 |
| alistra | (at least my build crashed with it) | 00:42 |
| Alex_Gaynor | in theory it's supported if you compile with --gcrootfinder=shadowstack | 00:43 |
| alistra | well i would have to do it by hand (now trying with gentoo's emerge) | 00:44 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | ok, I know nothing about gentoo or the pypy package for it | 00:44 |
| alistra | well basically gentoo has a package menager where you can compile stuff | 00:44 |
| alistra | and you can CC=clang emerge pypy | 00:45 |
| alistra | then it uses clang instead of gcc :} | 00:48 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I figured as much :) | 00:48 |
| alistra | also emerge is written i python, would love to try it out with pypy | 00:49 |
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| alistra | i sure would like a progress bar more than the mandelbrot :3 | 00:54 |
| Alex_Gaynor | alistra: it'd be like a windows progress bar if we had one :) | 00:54 |
| alistra | i don't understand the joke (if it's one) because i'm not familliar with windows' progress bar | 00:55 |
| Alex_Gaynor | they tend to jump around. 30 seconds, 10 minutes, done,for no aparent reason | 00:57 |
| Alex_Gaynor | http://xkcd.com/612/ | 00:58 |
| alistra | ah those ones | 00:58 |
| alistra | the old ones | 00:58 |
| Alex_Gaynor | yeah :) | 00:58 |
| alistra | not sure if they're the same in the new windows | 00:58 |
| alistra | i didn't say nothing about an eta | 00:58 |
| Action: Alex_Gaynor tires to do as little as possible on windows | 00:58 | |
| alistra | as we all do | 00:59 |
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| bbot2 | 3Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/164 | 01:07 |
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| alistra | i surely understand why the buildbot, compiling now for half an hour | 01:14 |
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| bbot2 | 3Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/969 | 02:46 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/1882 | 03:47 |
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| brutal_chaos | Finally. A comparison of the prebuilt 64bit asmgcc pypy-1.7 and a shadowstack (built with clang) benchmark has finished and been submitted to the ml. | 04:02 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/1463 | 04:46 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/636 | 05:07 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/299 | 07:09 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo default 111edf7af77df6 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/test/test_del.py: A failing test: keepalive_until_there is not really strong enough. | 07:13 |
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| arigato | hi | 07:44 |
| arigato | fijal: there is nothing about light finalizers in the jit, so far, I think, unlike what you implied yesterday? | 07:44 |
| fijal | oh ok | 07:44 |
| fijal | maybe I just wanted to implement them? | 07:44 |
| arigato | :-) | 07:45 |
| arigato | I'm trying to get keepalives to work in all cases, but it looks like a mess | 07:45 |
| fijal | all cases being? | 07:45 |
| arigato | through the jit | 07:45 |
| arigato | right now the support is minimal, but I haven't even managed to make sure if it's enough or not | 07:46 |
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| Insectoid | I've been trying to translate PyPy on my own for a while now. Windows translations are broke and have been for a while, but building the rev of the latest binary release would always blow up with an RPython MemoryError or similar at around 2G of memory usage. Today I sat down and took a look, and it turns out there's a very simple fix that you can incorporate into your build process for releases. With Visual Studio comes a tool, binedit.exe. I | 07:46 |
| arigato | Insectoid: your line was too long, it was truncated after "binedit.exe" | 07:47 |
| arigato | but we know about it, yes | 07:47 |
| Insectoid | If you run binedit /LARGEADDRESSAWARE pypy.exe, PYPY can then use more than 2G of memory without crashing. This resulted in a successful translation on my machine :) I would have reported this on Bitbucket, but I'm blind, and they have an inaccessible CAPTCHA. | 07:48 |
| arigato | :-/ | 07:49 |
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| arigato | thanks! I think that Christian Tismer, our Windows developer, already knows about it | 07:49 |
| MostAwesomeDude | Insectoid: Awesome find. Thank you. | 07:50 |
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| arigato | Insectoid: fwiw, actually the bugs go to http://bugs.pypy.org/, which is not bitbucket and has (I think) no captcha | 07:52 |
| Insectoid | My mistake. I should have looked instead of just assuming that the codebase and bugtracker were hosted in the same place. | 07:52 |
| arigato | well it's not really a bug, but it can be filed as an issue anyway. I'll write it down there | 07:52 |
| Insectoid | Should it throw an https cert error? | 07:53 |
| arigato | yes :-( | 07:54 |
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| Insectoid | I've also been trying to get wxPython to build. I needed my own translation to accomplish this because I needed pypy-c.lib. I got a successful build but... | 07:54 |
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| Insectoid | Importing it I get an error dialog that a wx dll cannot be found, and the dll is in the wx directory correctly. Would I report this as a PyPy bug... a WX bug (that won't be fixed) ... ? | 07:55 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo default 115a510c5ffc55 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/test/test_del.py: bah. | 07:56 |
| arigato | Insectoid: please report it as a PyPy bug | 07:57 |
| Insectoid | arigato: Okay, thank you. | 07:58 |
| arigato | it looks like the issue is really on the side of PyPy (on Windows at least) | 07:58 |
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| myf | howdy, anyone's awake at this moment | 08:03 |
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| MostAwesomeDude | myf: Yes, but that's not really what you wanted to ask. :3 | 08:07 |
| myf | you are awesome! | 08:08 |
| myf | my question is that if any of you has experience with beautifulsoup in pypy | 08:08 |
| myf | and why is it super slowwww | 08:09 |
| fijal | myf: no idea | 08:11 |
| MostAwesomeDude | Do you have an example? | 08:11 |
| MostAwesomeDude | Is it still slow under lxml? | 08:11 |
| fijal | does it use a C extension? | 08:11 |
| fijal | MostAwesomeDude: lxml does not work under pypy | 08:11 |
| MostAwesomeDude | fijal: Aw, really? :c | 08:11 |
| fijal | rly | 08:12 |
| myf | i'm just running it with some script i wrote and time it then compare it with python result.... | 08:12 |
| fijal | myf: maybe you're using different xml parsers or so? | 08:12 |
| myf | so the problem is lxml? | 08:12 |
| fijal | I have a bit no idea | 08:12 |
| fijal | would be cool to have a reproducible example, so I can have a look | 08:13 |
| myf | was using some script i wrote for this small startup i used to work, so probably not gonna show it. but it's extremely simply | 08:13 |
| myf | use beautifulsoup to parse | 08:14 |
| pjenvey | isn't it heavy on regular expressions? | 08:14 |
| myf | no re at all | 08:14 |
| myf | you mean beautifulsoup? | 08:14 |
| pjenvey | yea | 08:14 |
| myf | it's written in python i think, but I have never looked at the source | 08:15 |
| myf | ohhhhh, also in order to download the page there's urllib | 08:15 |
| fijal | myf: we can't help you if we can't have a look | 08:17 |
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| CIA-13 | 03mongoose_q 07roundup * 10#889/Windows binary distribution is missing cpyext header files: | 08:21 |
| CIA-13 | This is more general. wxPython's build process does the same thing. I had to | 08:21 |
| CIA-13 | copy pypy-c.lib from %tmp%\usession-unknown-17\testing_1 into the bu ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue889 | 08:21 |
| pjenvey | yea it's written in python, I seem to recall it being re heavy but my memory is from a long time ago | 08:22 |
| pjenvey | if you can narrow down the slowness to a simple benchmark someone could take a look | 08:24 |
| myf | ok i've got an example | 08:26 |
| myf | http://pastebin.com/zK3jSxFf | 08:26 |
| myf | very simple script | 08:26 |
| myf | and you can feed just some random html file for comparison | 08:27 |
| myf | myf@ctesiphon ~> python beautiful.py wea.html | 08:27 |
| myf | 0.000868082046509 | 08:27 |
| myf | myf@ctesiphon ~> pypy beautiful.py wea.html | 08:27 |
| myf | 0.00217890739441 | 08:27 |
| myf | that was my result | 08:27 |
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| kirma | does running time increase linearly with the input size for python, but polynomially for pypy? it could be stupid string concatenation relying on a hackish cpython optimization if so | 08:31 |
| pjenvey | that tells me pypy is 3 times slower on a millisecond benchmark, basically measuring startup time. no time for the jit to warmup | 08:31 |
| myf | yea this is pretty simple | 08:32 |
| kirma | pypy is probably not the best idea for such short-lived processes, anyway | 08:33 |
| myf | but on my other scrpit to process some page, python does in 6 second and pypy does it in 12 | 08:33 |
| myf | i can probably come up with a better one if i spend more time | 08:33 |
| myf | but oher than hacing jit to warm up, could there be any other speculations? | 08:34 |
| kirma | you might want to figure out if implementations have different time complexity, or if they more or less differ by a constant multiplier | 08:35 |
| arigato | you're expecting a process that takes 0.8 ms to become faster? | 08:39 |
| arigato | don't look at pypy | 08:39 |
| arigato | please come up with an example that takes at least a few seconds | 08:40 |
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| myf | prhs | 08:42 |
| myf | i'll come up with something tomorrow | 08:42 |
| myf | too tired to function | 08:42 |
| myf | anyone got coffee | 08:42 |
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| kirma | does spilling coffee on my irc window help? :) | 08:45 |
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| myf | whale whale whale | 08:46 |
| myf | there's a nasty huffingtonpost one | 08:46 |
| dimazest | hi, what would be the best web server to run a flask wsgi app together with pymongo? | 08:47 |
| dimazest | on pypy, ofcourse :) | 08:47 |
| myf | myf@ctesiphon ~> python beautiful.py http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/08/richard-cordray-nomination-obama-cfpb_n_1136243.html | 08:47 |
| myf | 0.652200937271 | 08:47 |
| myf | myf@ctesiphon ~> pypy beautiful.py http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/08/richard-cordray-nomination-obama-cfpb_n_1136243.html | 08:47 |
| myf | 1.45290017128 | 08:47 |
| myf | but other than that i'd come up with better ideas tomorrow | 08:47 |
| myf | thanks yall | 08:47 |
| myf | till then | 08:48 |
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| myf | http://pastebin.com/B7BG1UBh | 08:49 |
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| antocuni | nice, bitbucket's blog uses stringobject.py to showcase the new side-by-side diff | 08:56 |
| antocuni | http://blog.bitbucket.org/2011/12/08/pull-requests-with-side-by-side-diffs/ | 08:56 |
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| myf | aight, before i pass out, does half a second benchmark difference significant in this case? | 09:01 |
| arigato | myf: it depends a bit. usually yes, but it might also be the case that there are really tons and tons of regexps and code to compile | 09:02 |
| arigato | (in which case it's still an interesting benchmark for speeding up warm-up time) | 09:02 |
| myf | arigato: so regex might be the bottleneck in this case | 09:02 |
| arigato | no, the warm-up time only | 09:03 |
| myf | ans someone mentioned that beautifulsoup is heavy on re | 09:03 |
| kenaan | 12bivab benchmarks 11dece54731283 15/runner.py: sort benchmark names | 09:03 |
| arigato | it's hard to guess, you need to run several benchmarks that take longer and longer, and see how it converges | 09:03 |
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| myf | right | 09:03 |
| arigato | but yes, your timings look like "it's taking too long on pypy" holds true anyway | 09:04 |
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| myf | thanks for the answer, a lot to learn! | 09:05 |
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| cfbolz | Insectoid: hi | 09:11 |
| cfbolz | Insectoid: I think a bug should be filed about the captcha of bitbucket | 09:11 |
| cfbolz | that's not really acceptable | 09:11 |
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| Insectoid | cfbolz: I agree. I usually have a way to solve them but the service recently shut down. | 09:22 |
| cfbolz | Insectoid: ah, but I guess you need to solve a captcha to file a bug | 09:22 |
| cfbolz | grr | 09:22 |
| cfbolz | Insectoid: I'll file it | 09:23 |
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| fijal | hey | 09:42 |
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| fijal | cfbolz: catch 22 :) | 09:58 |
| fijal | cfbolz: http://www.dukaj.pl/bibliografia/publikacje/TheDedalusBookOfPolishFantasy | 10:00 |
| fijal | if you can reach it *somehow* | 10:00 |
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| brutal_chaos | fijal: your bencmarks await | 10:03 |
| cfbolz | fijal: catch-22 I read recently. probably one of the funniest books ever | 10:05 |
| brutal_chaos | cfbolz: i don't think it was meant to be funnyt | 10:06 |
| brutal_chaos | funny*]\ | 10:06 |
| brutal_chaos | damn, I cannot type. | 10:06 |
| brutal_chaos | funny* | 10:06 |
| cfbolz | brutal_chaos: yes, so? | 10:06 |
| cfbolz | brutal_chaos: neither was absurd theater meant to be funny, but to express a deep problem. still funny | 10:07 |
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| cfbolz | fijal: the other book seems hard to get indeed | 10:07 |
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| fijal | brutal_chaos: my benchmarks? | 10:08 |
| brutal_chaos | llvm/clang vs asmgcc | 10:08 |
| fijal | cfbolz: :( | 10:08 |
| fijal | brutal_chaos: well, it's slower on clang & shadowstack | 10:08 |
| fijal | cfbolz: I love Dukaj, just got on of his books in polish | 10:09 |
| fijal | maybe german? | 10:09 |
| fijal | http://www.dukaj.pl/bibliografia/publikacje/AufDerStrasseNachOodnadatta | 10:09 |
| brutal_chaos | fijal: well, i didn't know how to understand your stdout.... | 10:09 |
| brutal_chaos | lol | 10:09 |
| cfbolz | fijal: that seems cheaper, at least used 95 cents | 10:10 |
| fijal | brutal_chaos: ah ok, the asmgcc is ~5% faster | 10:10 |
| fijal | sometimes 15% faster | 10:10 |
| brutal_chaos | ah alright, good to know. | 10:10 |
| fijal | cfbolz: cool, although there is only one I can recommend there, I don' | 10:11 |
| fijal | t know about others | 10:11 |
| fijal | one story that is | 10:11 |
| cfbolz | fijal: for 95 cents... | 10:11 |
| fijal | cfbolz: sounds like a good deal to me :) | 10:11 |
| cfbolz | fijal: of course there is 3 euro shipping :-) | 10:12 |
| fijal | if you don't like it, I can give you back your 95 cents ;-) | 10:12 |
| Nick change: wulczer-afk -> wulczer | 10:12 | |
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| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: morning | 10:14 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: hey | 10:14 |
| fijal | cfbolz: I meant catch-22 with bitbucket and bugs btw | 10:14 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: can I make those html5 slides offline btw? | 10:15 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: sure | 10:15 |
| cfbolz | fijal: yes, got that | 10:15 |
| fijal | cfbolz: ok :) | 10:15 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: link to the site? | 10:15 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: http://code.google.com/p/html5slides/ you mean? | 10:16 |
| fijal | yes | 10:16 |
| fijal | is it cool to use? | 10:16 |
| Action: fijal is making some slides for pug | 10:16 | |
| Alex_Gaynor | yeah, the end results look pretty nice | 10:16 |
| cfbolz | fijal: btw, did you see that nbody is now faster by 20% than before, with the introduction of float list? | 10:16 |
| Alex_Gaynor | cfbolz: so the unpacking thing fixed it? | 10:16 |
| fijal | cfbolz: cool! | 10:17 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I miss being able to come back | 10:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: ? | 10:17 |
| fijal | because once you had an animation, you can't | 10:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | ah yeah | 10:17 |
| fijal | like bullets or code changes | 10:17 |
| cfbolz | Alex_Gaynor: seems so | 10:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | cfbolz: I guess benchmarks work then :) | 10:18 |
| fijal | http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/?exe=1&base=none&ben=django&env=1&revs=50&equid=off | 10:18 |
| fijal | this one is still gloomy | 10:19 |
| fijal | cfbolz: btw, some benchmarks like mako are incredibly fast on tannit | 10:19 |
| fijal | respective to cpython | 10:19 |
| fijal | it's 2x compared to my laptop | 10:20 |
| fijal | pypy/cpython is 2x on tannit, 1.1x on my machine | 10:20 |
| fijal | it has something to do with nursery size (that's mako) | 10:20 |
| fijal | anyway, /me surf break | 10:20 |
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| arigato | can I use tannit to run more benchmarks? | 10:26 |
| arigato | i.e. is nobody planning to use tannit in the next 2 hours? | 10:26 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo temp2 1103796662a8a0 15/pypy/jit/backend/: hg backout 062e9d06c908 | 10:36 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/1150 [12arigo, temp2] | 10:37 |
| kenaan | 12arigo SpecialisedTuples 114efbd07c3e55 15/pypy/: hg merge default | 10:38 |
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| stakkars_ | howdy! | 10:56 |
| stakkars_ | what was the translation option for compiling with multi-CPU? I can't find the option in the --help | 10:56 |
| stakkars_ | arigato: now I know why my translation isn't _that_ fast: the machine is big, but only 1.6 GHz :-) | 11:01 |
| stakkars_ | sigh, good to know | 11:01 |
| arigato | stakkars_: multiple threads: it's not a built-in capability, but "make" accepts a "-j" option on Unix | 11:02 |
| arigato | this can be set with the env var MAKEFLAGS=-j4 | 11:02 |
| stakkars_ | arigato: ah!?! | 11:03 |
| arigato | or the translate option --make-jobs=4 | 11:03 |
| arigato | but I guess that the "4" goes nowhere on Windows right now | 11:03 |
| stakkars_ | fijal told me -- yes! That is not controlled by us, but a make option? So windows it out ;-) | 11:04 |
| stakkars_ | but I could rework the make process to run multiple compiles by splitting it up | 11:05 |
| stakkars_ | and then do another make, which then finds all compilations to be ready. | 11:05 |
| stakkars_ | but I also could simple leave it alone..... | 11:06 |
| stakkars_ | but I also could simple leave it alone&.. | 11:06 |
| arigato | look carefully if "make" already has an equivalent option | 11:06 |
| stakkars_ | how much TeraHz does your Laptop have? | 11:07 |
| stakkars_ | I calculate you have 2.4 GHz | 11:08 |
| stakkars_ | or 2.2 | 11:08 |
| arigato | 2.53GHz | 11:09 |
| stakkars_ | ha! all good, then virtualbox is performing fine. | 11:12 |
| stakkars_ | and servers tend to have many cores at lower speed. Even my brand-new MacMini has 4 cores, but 2 GHz | 11:13 |
| Action: stakkars_ craving for STM :-> | 11:13 | |
| mikefc | Why might the OSX build on buildbot fail with: "translate translation aborted ( 5 hrs, 32 mins, 32 secs )" | 11:14 |
| mikefc | ? | 11:14 |
| mikefc | obviously it was killed for taking too long. but does that indicate a bug? or just a tempermental build machine? | 11:15 |
| mikefc | oops | 11:17 |
| mikefc | it's that fucking defaultdict test I filed last week | 11:17 |
| mikefc | Alex_Gaynor: that defaultdict test is causing the osx build to fail i think. | 11:18 |
| arigato | [platform:execute] make -j 4 in /tmp/usession-default-2516/testing_1 | 11:18 |
| arigato | command timed out: 5400 seconds without output, killing pid 58816 | 11:18 |
| arigato | I don't see how this relates to defaultdict? | 11:19 |
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| mikefc | http://buildbot.pypy.org/summary/longrepr?testname=unmodified&builder=pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64&build=296&mod=lib-python.2.7.test.test_defaultdict | 11:19 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | I can't possiblyimagine the defaultddict thin effected it | 11:19 |
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| mikefc | ====================================================================== | 11:19 |
| mikefc | ERROR: test_copy (test.test_defaultdict.TestDefaultDict) | 11:19 |
| mikefc | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | 11:19 |
| mikefc | Traceback (most recent call last): | 11:19 |
| mikefc | File "/Users/pypy/buildslave/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/build/lib-python/2.7/test/test_defaultdict.py", line 98, in test_copy | 11:19 |
| mikefc | d2 = d1.copy() | 11:19 |
| mikefc | TypeError: first argument must be callable | 11:19 |
| arigato | mikefc: yes, I fixed this one | 11:19 |
| mikefc | Oh. OK. | 11:19 |
| arigato | you're looking at an older failure | 11:19 |
| mikefc | ugh. I'm sorry :( | 11:20 |
| Action: mikefc needs to find a chunk of time to get started on actual pypy hacking instead of just dancing around the edges. | 11:20 | |
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| stakkars_ | arigato: going to upgrade my server, again. Actually I can get a cheaper one | 11:24 |
| stakkars_ | with quad core I7 2.6 GHz, and 16 Gb. | 11:24 |
| stakkars_ | question: | 11:24 |
| stakkars_ | does it make sense to go for a Xeon E3-1275? | 11:25 |
| stakkars_ | do we have/need different support for such a CPU, and would it help PyPy to have such a machine to play with? | 11:26 |
| apollo13 | quadcore i7 and 16 gb sounds like hetzner | 11:27 |
| stakkars_ | sounds like hetzner, walks and quacks like hetzner, _IS_ hetzner | 11:28 |
| apollo13 | lol | 11:28 |
| stakkars_ | but the apollo13 also needs an upgrade | 11:28 |
| apollo13 | stakkars_: hell no, new revisions explode :/ | 11:29 |
| stakkars_ | :-D | 11:29 |
| stakkars_ | so what do people thing: does Xeon make sense, or do we have that already (or don't plan to care?) | 11:30 |
| stakkars_ | s/thing/think/ | 11:30 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/1150 [12arigo, temp2] | 11:36 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/1151 [12arigo, SpecialisedTuples] | 11:36 |
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| Action: arigato managed to run the wrong buildbot | 12:08 | |
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| bbot2 | 13Exception: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/1151 [12arigo, SpecialisedTuples] | 12:09 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/970 [12arigo, temp2] | 12:10 |
| stakkars_ | arigato: I'm ordering a server. You can influence me _now_!! ;-) | 12:10 |
| arigato | I suppose I don't have any more to say than: "why?" | 12:11 |
| arigato | but I evolved into being a guy that is happy for years with one good machine | 12:12 |
| stakkars_ | why new server? because it is faster and cheaper to upgrade. | 12:12 |
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| arigato | feel free. I don't think I should have any influence on it | 12:13 |
| stakkars_ | question is: do we have an advantage from Xeon processor, or is Core I7 enough | 12:13 |
| arigato | I cannot answer this question | 12:13 |
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| stakkars_ | the question was directed to those who work on CPU related things, like insn set. If I upgrade, then to that what's useful for PyPy | 12:14 |
| stakkars_ | maybe fijal in interested | 12:15 |
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| Nick change: DasIch__ -> DasIch | 12:36 | |
| stakkars_ | fijal: I'm replacing my root server. Do you have a preference which CPU? | 12:37 |
| arigato | can someone enlighten me about how sys.path_hooks is supposed to be used? | 12:37 |
| arigato | I'd like to add an entry to sys.path that doesn't correspond to any filesystem path | 12:37 |
| stakkars_ | fijal: is a Xeon processor better for developing PyPy, or is Core I7 fine? | 12:38 |
| fijal | stakkars_: I think the bigger cache the better | 12:39 |
| fijal | otherwise dunno | 12:39 |
| fijal | but maybe it's just that our heuristics suck | 12:39 |
| stakkars_ | better on Xeon? | 12:39 |
| arigato | fijal: how about we try to fix the nursery to 4MB by default? | 12:40 |
| stakkars_ | I'm only asking if we have an advantage in the different instruction set. If that's irrelevant, then I'll take an I7, because it costs me less | 12:40 |
| arigato | stakkars_: make sure the machine has at least around 2MB of cache, but I suppose that it's always true nowadays | 12:42 |
| arigato | stakkars_: if you're wondering about instruction set, I don't think we care in the slightest | 12:42 |
| fijal | stakkars_: I think the main difference is that you can put few xeons together in one computer | 12:42 |
| fijal | unlike i7 | 12:42 |
| fijal | so there is no *actual* difference or it's minor | 12:42 |
| arigato | well check the cache size | 12:42 |
| arigato | that also tends to change a little bit | 12:43 |
| stakkars_ | yes, I'll do | 12:43 |
| arigato | but as I said it may not matter | 12:43 |
| fijal | arigato: ok | 12:43 |
| fijal | arigato: it would be better than now | 12:43 |
| arigato | yes | 12:43 |
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| fijal | eh | 12:45 |
| fijal | I'm fed up with martijn writing walls of text on pypy-dev | 12:45 |
| fijal | I'm inclined to answer "it's all nice and possible, but it's very unlikely I'll do anything related" | 12:45 |
| stakkars_ | it's always the same with hetzner. You order a great machine, and after one or two yests, it is cheaper to use a new setup. My 2010 server costs 89 Eur/month, 1.5 TB raid1, 24G mem, 1.6 GHz | 12:45 |
| stakkars_ | now I can get 3 TB, 16G mem, 2.6 GHz for 49 Eur/month | 12:46 |
| stakkars_ | plus 150 setup, amortized after a few months | 12:47 |
| arigato | fijal: yes, that's mostly what I wrote too | 12:47 |
| fijal | arigato: except not explicit enough to stop him from writing another wall of text | 12:48 |
| fijal | but maybe you can't | 12:48 |
| arigato | well, never mind that, just write one answer and if the next e-mail doesn't ask new question then you're done | 12:49 |
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| CIA-13 | 03arigo 07roundup * 10#958/AMD Opterons don't specify their L3 cache size: | 12:52 |
| CIA-13 | [testing] Changed the default to always use 4MB. It seems better than now in most use | 12:52 |
| CIA-13 | cases. More precise testing might give more hints, maybe. * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue958 | 12:52 |
| kenaan | 12arigo default 114c10a84a7da0 15/pypy/rpython/memory/gc/minimark.py: For minimark, use by default 4MB for the nursery size, instead of half the number found by poking in /proc/cpuinfo,... | 12:53 |
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| exarkun | I want to switch the Twisted website over to run on PyPy, but the buffer case for s* needs to be implemented. Anyone want to help with that? | 12:57 |
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| stakkars_ | fijal, arigo: 8 Mb cache is ok I think (cheaper option) | 12:59 |
| stakkars_ | done, decided | 12:59 |
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| mattip | hello. Someone change dlopen which broke the windows build. I created a one line patch here, https://gist.github.com/1451503 but don't really want to push to default. Could one of the core developers merge this please? | 13:02 |
| stakkars_ | ok, will do that. Thanks! | 13:08 |
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| stakkars_ | but I think it is better do keep the interace and write | 13:10 |
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| stakkars_ | def dlopen(name, unused=None) | 13:10 |
| mattip | see? That's why I didn't want to commit it :) | 13:20 |
| kenaan | 12ctismer default 118abfe57358d8 15/pypy/rlib/rdynload.py: windows fix (mattip, stakkars) | 13:20 |
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| stakkars_ | actually, interface changes without checking platform dependent code is not very nice behavior. | 13:23 |
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| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/288 [12mattip, default] | 13:37 |
| mattip | first time I did that. | 13:37 |
| stakkars_ | your first bot start? | 13:39 |
| mattip | yep. | 13:39 |
| stakkars_ | well, I'm just 5 weeks ahead | 13:39 |
| mattip | But what a 5 weeks its been! | 13:40 |
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| stakkars_ | because of the first win64 build? hee | 13:41 |
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| camara_ | stakkars_: you will find that Xeon will be faster for building pypy as it has larger cache, higher bandwidth to the system memory, and tends to have additional optimizations | 13:54 |
| stakkars_ | ok. It is Eur 69 vs Eur 49. Is it 30 % faster? :-) | 13:56 |
| camara_ | no likely about 15% if comparing similar clock speeds | 13:57 |
| stakkars_ | per month, that really counts, and I'm coming from core i7 960, Eur. 89 | 13:57 |
| kirma | euros for what? | 13:58 |
| stakkars_ | so the change to the Eur 49 offer is still more attractive. (buying the 2nd best is a good strategy) | 13:58 |
| stakkars_ | for my server, per month! | 13:59 |
| kirma | how about EC2 instances for the amount of time you actually need | 13:59 |
| stakkars_ | I'm again upgrading my snakepit machine, which has stackless.com, python.net and a few others, and my build slave | 13:59 |
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| stakkars_ | because I cannot go without speed | 14:00 |
| Nick change: Gulaway -> Gulopine | 14:01 | |
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| fijal | exarkun: what buffer? I can probably help | 14:39 |
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| fijal | stakkars: hey | 14:39 |
| fijal | stakkars: I'm sorry for breaking windows | 14:39 |
| fijal | kirma: EC2 does not really work well with stuff like benchmarks | 14:40 |
| fijal | besides, our usage is quite high | 14:40 |
| Nick change: Gulopine -> Gulaway | 14:41 | |
| exarkun | fijal: __builtin__.buffer | 14:44 |
| fijal | to support it in cpyext? | 14:45 |
| exarkun | yes | 14:45 |
| exarkun | in getargs.c | 14:45 |
| fijal | oh | 14:45 |
| fijal | for pyopenssl? | 14:45 |
| exarkun | right | 14:46 |
| fijal | uh aliens stole my laptop | 14:46 |
| Action: fijal looks for excuses | 14:46 | |
| fijal | exarkun: ok, I'll have a look | 14:46 |
| exarkun | OpenSSL/ssl/connection.c, ssl_Connection_send | 14:46 |
| fijal | did you write a test? | 14:46 |
| exarkun | One of the pyOpenSSL tests should cover it | 14:46 |
| exarkun | Let me check | 14:46 |
| fijal | no, as in cpyext test | 14:47 |
| fijal | would be a good start | 14:47 |
| exarkun | Blech. PyPy looks in ~/.local/lib/python2.7/site-packages before looking in its own site-packages | 14:48 |
| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/970 [12arigo, temp2] | 14:48 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/971 [12arigo, SpecialisedTuples] | 14:48 |
| exarkun | Adding something to test_getargs.py might be easy I guess | 14:51 |
| exarkun | maybe easy enough that I should just let you do it :) but let me know if you'd rather I. | 14:51 |
| kenaan | 12bivab arm-backend-2 11a94098254217 15/pypy/jit/backend/arm/opassembler.py: (bivab, arigo) use constants here | 14:52 |
| kenaan | 12bivab arm-backend-2 110cde4d93fe16 15/pypy/jit/backend/arm/runner.py: (arigo, bivab): write the correct value at the force index in the frame | 14:52 |
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| kenaan | 12ctismer win64-stage1 11ffe08320d6bc 15/pypy/: Quite a simplification and improvement: removed the extra mess for signed_defn.h and put it into the standar... | 14:56 |
| fijal | exarkun: are you sure? | 14:57 |
| fijal | exarkun: I would definitely be happy if you do it :) | 14:57 |
| Action: fijal trying not very hard to make slides | 14:57 | |
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| abki_ | hi | 15:03 |
| abki_ | is there an api similar to gevent on pypy 1.7 ? | 15:03 |
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| abki_ | the documentation at http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/index.html still seem to reference 1.6 code | 15:05 |
| fijal | no | 15:05 |
| fijal | I'll fix the docs | 15:05 |
| fijal | greenlets work though | 15:05 |
| fijal | and eventlet is reported to work | 15:06 |
| abki_ | thx | 15:08 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: ping | 15:14 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: ping | 15:33 |
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| exarkun | abki_: Plus, there's Twisted. | 15:39 |
| exarkun | Hey, what is the C struct for the __builtin__.buffer type? | 15:40 |
| exarkun | does cpyext even have it? | 15:40 |
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| exarkun | Bah, I can't run pypy's tests anymore | 15:44 |
| arigato | it's PyBuffer_Type | 15:44 |
| exarkun | fijal would have been done with the whole thing by now :/ | 15:44 |
| arigato | yes, it is in cpyext | 15:44 |
| arigato | ah no, confusion | 15:45 |
| arigato | it is called PyBufferObject, but even CPython 2.7 doesn't expose it | 15:45 |
| exarkun | pypy/module/cpyext/test/test_getargs.py ......Segmentation fault | 15:46 |
| exarkun | :( | 15:46 |
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| K-os | hi! when running python py.py it does some gcc-compilation stuff at the beginning. | 15:52 |
| K-os | can anybody tell me what it is? | 15:52 |
| timotimo | platform-checks | 15:52 |
| timotimo | things like "how big is a pointer" and such | 15:52 |
| MostAwesomeDude | K-os: It's checking your toolchain capabilities. | 15:52 |
| MostAwesomeDude | Kinda like those checks that happen during an autoconf. | 15:53 |
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| K-os | ok, but when it's running on top of python, why does it need to know this low-level stuff? | 15:53 |
| K-os | or is there actually a JIT involved? | 15:53 |
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| timotimo | pypy uses foreign-function-interface things | 15:54 |
| timotimo | ctypes, for example, or its own _ffi module | 15:54 |
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| K-os | oh ok | 15:54 |
| K-os | and the cpython interpreter can not provide this information? | 15:55 |
| MostAwesomeDude | Oh, this is on top of CPython, interpreted? In that case, I'm not sure why gcc is invoked. | 15:55 |
| K-os | i thought so | 15:55 |
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| K-os | in the pypy checkout i'm in the pypy/bin/ directory | 15:56 |
| K-os | and just doing "python py.py" where python is my standard distribution supplied cpython interpreter | 15:57 |
| fijal | exarkun: :( | 15:57 |
| exarkun | fijal: I'm stuck now. I don't know why it segfaults. When I try to add debug info, it fails with C compiler errors that make no sense. | 15:57 |
| santagada | K-os, it need to know the same thing than when running standalone | 15:58 |
| exarkun | http://codepad.org/XG9qsg3K | 15:58 |
| K-os | ok | 15:58 |
| santagada | K-os, because ctypes don't know this stuff | 15:58 |
| fijal | exarkun: you added a test? | 15:58 |
| fijal | that segfaults? | 15:59 |
| exarkun | fijal: yes | 15:59 |
| fijal | ok | 15:59 |
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| Rhy0lite | fijal: we have Alex in custody | 15:59 |
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| fijal | Rhy0lite: heh :) | 15:59 |
| K-os | hm. funny. i would think a module for interfacing with native code would provide that info :-) | 15:59 |
| fijal | Rhy0lite: is he telling you "all that travis said is obsolete"? | 16:00 |
| exarkun | K-os: How would it provide you with the info without running a C compiler? | 16:00 |
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| Rhy0lite | what did travis say? | 16:00 |
| fijal | exarkun: is there a reason why PyBuffer_Release is to the right so much? | 16:00 |
| fijal | Rhy0lite: that you should use C/cython I presume | 16:00 |
| exarkun | fijal: I just copied it from a similar test in the module. | 16:00 |
| fijal | ok | 16:01 |
| Rhy0lite | oh, that | 16:01 |
| exarkun | I don't even remember what it does. | 16:01 |
| Rhy0lite | Travis didn't say anything | 16:01 |
| K-os | ctypes could do that on 'installation' | 16:01 |
| exarkun | fijal: Oh. In the paste. I don't know. Copy/paste buffers are weird I guess. | 16:01 |
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| exarkun | fijal: It doesn't look like that in the source file. | 16:01 |
| Rhy0lite | Travis was a marketing pitch about NumPy/SciPy | 16:01 |
| Rhy0lite | "look at the pretty pictures" | 16:01 |
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| K-os | or on compilation of the cpython interpreter. but that doesn't have to do with pypy any more... :-) | 16:02 |
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| exarkun | K-os: That's not a practical idea. | 16:03 |
| santagada | K-os, yep. probably some form of platform detection should be part of ctypes | 16:04 |
| santagada | exarkun, why do you think so? | 16:04 |
| K-os | that's what i would think of a foreign function module... | 16:04 |
| exarkun | santagada: Why is impractical to gather information about every possible ABI at installation time? I can think of many reasons. | 16:05 |
| exarkun | santagada: Any one should be sufficient to convince you. For example, perhaps some of the libraries you'll eventually be interested in haven't been written yet. | 16:05 |
| santagada | exarkun, I mean the same thing platform detection code in pypy does, discover pointer sizes and other simple stuff from std c | 16:06 |
| santagada | exarkun, the same module that pypy uses could be part of ctypes. | 16:07 |
| exarkun | santagada: The module PyPy uses invokes gcc | 16:07 |
| exarkun | Am I completely turned around about what K-os is talking about? I thought he was saying it should be possible to gather the information without running gcc. | 16:08 |
| K-os | yes, that's what i thought | 16:08 |
| santagada | no there is no way to do that | 16:09 |
| exarkun | And you can't do it without running gcc, and you can't run gcc on _everything in the world_ up front. | 16:09 |
| santagada | I mean, if you implement gcc, then yes | 16:09 |
| K-os | in case it's only pointer and int and long sizes, it should be easy for the runtime to provide that | 16:09 |
| santagada | exarkun, probably most of the simple stuff everyone needs could come pre compiled/defined | 16:09 |
| exarkun | K-os: And arbitrary struct alignment, and macro "resolution" | 16:10 |
| santagada | K-os, every macro on every library also has to be introspected | 16:10 |
| exarkun | K-os: Can't do it. | 16:10 |
| K-os | ok, that's another thing | 16:10 |
| K-os | i get it | 16:10 |
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| K-os | another question. why does py.py not run on top of pypy-c. is it just not of interest or are there more fundamental problems? | 16:12 |
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| fijal | K-os: yes, but there are more complex things that sizes of ints | 16:13 |
| fijal | K-os: I failed to provide "common sizes" in svn | 16:13 |
| fijal | Rhy0lite: I kind of hoped he would tell a bit about architecture, why it's good, python productivity | 16:13 |
| fijal | or something | 16:13 |
| K-os | fijal: yes i understand the problem. i just didn't think about structs and stuff... | 16:14 |
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| exarkun | K-os: py.py does run on top of pypy-c. | 16:16 |
| K-os | hm, not with my version | 16:16 |
| exarkun | Get a newer version, or file a bug. | 16:17 |
| fijal | er no | 16:17 |
| fijal | --no-faking | 16:17 |
| fijal | or --allworkingmodules | 16:17 |
| fijal | only runs | 16:17 |
| fijal | exarkun: ok, next step would be killing some #if 0 in getargs.c | 16:17 |
| exarkun | fijal: To fix the segfault? | 16:18 |
| fijal | do you want me to do it or do you feel adventerous? | 16:18 |
| fijal | yes | 16:18 |
| exarkun | fijal: The failure I encountered with the Twisted website was the NotImplementedError case, not a segfault. | 16:18 |
| fijal | unforuntately segfault is a perfectly fine failing test for cpyext :( | 16:18 |
| exarkun | fijal: So I guess my unit test does not correctly reflect the use case I am interested in. | 16:18 |
| fijal | it's commented by #if 0 | 16:18 |
| fijal | it might lead to various things | 16:18 |
| fijal | it's not commented by "if this, raise error" | 16:18 |
| Rhy0lite | fijal: Alex is in my office. do you need him for something? | 16:19 |
| exarkun | fijal: When I mean that I encountered the NotImplementedError case, I mean that NotImplementedError got raised by the code. | 16:19 |
| fijal | yes | 16:19 |
| exarkun | s/mean/say | 16:19 |
| fijal | Rhy0lite: no, not really | 16:19 |
| fijal | exarkun: yes ok | 16:19 |
| exarkun | fijal: I don't get why the next step isn't writing a unit test that triggers NotImplementedError to be raised. | 16:20 |
| fijal | exarkun: but still I don't think it proves anything | 16:20 |
| exarkun | I'm really stupid today though. | 16:20 |
| fijal | because you might get a segfault before exception | 16:20 |
| fijal | as far as I can see in the code | 16:20 |
| abki_ | I'm wondering whether postgresql use a btree to store tuples, and table information | 16:20 |
| K-os | ah! with --nofaking it works | 16:20 |
| exarkun | abki_: #postgres | 16:21 |
| abki_ | oups | 16:21 |
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| fijal | exarkun: indeed, it should explode with NotImplementedError | 16:26 |
| fijal | I have no idea why it does not | 16:26 |
| exarkun | Do you know why it fails to compile when I add `printf("OH NO %s %d\n", buf.buf, buf.len);´? | 16:27 |
| K-os | bye | 16:27 |
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| fijal | no | 16:28 |
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| exarkun | ah right, I can read the generated c in /tmp | 16:29 |
| exarkun | And of course, "\n" is a stupid thing to put in a string literal in a C program embedded in a Python string | 16:29 |
| exarkun | `-1075718480` looks like a pretty awful value for buf.len | 16:33 |
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| exarkun | Ugh man. PyString_Check can _fail_? | 16:34 |
| exarkun | That's no kind of right | 16:35 |
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| exarkun | Okay... something about error handling in the s* non-string case is wrong | 16:43 |
| exarkun | I don't know what, but it's setting NotImplementedError but not causing PyArg_ParseTuple to fail | 16:44 |
| exarkun | And behaving differently untranslated vs translated | 16:44 |
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| exarkun | if I replace the NotImplementedError with a converterr() call then it fails appropriately | 16:46 |
| exarkun | maybe returning NULL from convertsimple is how you signal _success_? | 16:47 |
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| exarkun | What is cpyext/stubs.py? | 16:53 |
| exarkun | (why won't you write documentation :() | 16:53 |
| kenaan | 12arigo default 11a72429e0e0ed 15/pypy/: Write a hack to distinguish between "true built-in modules" and "pseudo-extension built-in modules". The latters a... | 16:55 |
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| fijal | that was probably me who wrote the code and I might not be paying attention | 16:57 |
| fijal | exarkun: maybe | 16:57 |
| CIA-13 | 03arigo 07roundup * 10#945/import shadowing module from __init__.py as __main__ fails: [resolved] Checked in as a straightforward hack: a72429e0e0ed * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue945 | 16:57 |
| exarkun | Where does PyBuffer_IsContiguous belong? | 16:57 |
| exarkun | in CPython it's in Objects/abstract.c | 16:57 |
| exarkun | Should I create a new cpyext/abstract.py? | 16:57 |
| fijal | exarkun: isn't it a thing that always returns True anyway? | 16:58 |
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| exarkun | I don't know yet. | 16:58 |
| exarkun | There's a sequence.py, so I guess I'll create buffer.py | 16:58 |
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| exarkun | Oh, there's already a Py_buffer defined in api.py, in addition to the one defined in stubs.py | 17:02 |
| exarkun | So the one in stubs.py should clearly be deleted | 17:03 |
| fijal | I think stubs.py is not even imported | 17:03 |
| fijal | but yes | 17:03 |
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| exarkun | Okay, so for now I'll try to say that contiguous buffers are the only ones pypy supports | 17:04 |
| exarkun | which means the implementation is `return not fortran´ | 17:04 |
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| exarkun | I mean `return fortran == 'C'´ | 17:04 |
| exarkun | nnng what | 17:05 |
| exarkun | `return fortran == 'C' or fortran == 'A'´ | 17:05 |
| fijal | I think it's the only one that people support anyway | 17:05 |
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| fijal | if you try to pass a non-contiguous buffer to cpython internals it'll explode in so many places | 17:05 |
| exarkun | I hate this interface | 17:05 |
| exarkun | It's a total catastrophe | 17:05 |
| fijal | welcome to the club | 17:06 |
| arigato | :-) | 17:06 |
| fijal | I'm actually amazed it somehow works | 17:06 |
| exarkun | What does this mean? @cpython_api([Py_buffer, lltype.Char], ...) | 17:07 |
| ronny | not 100% broken is practically working | 17:07 |
| ronny | exarkun: parameter types cpyext will have in c | 17:08 |
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| exarkun | Blech, obviously. | 17:08 |
| exarkun | sorry, I'm probably going to be stupid all day. | 17:08 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo buildbot 1183d6d146e64f 15/bot2/pypybuildbot/builds.py: Give it a bit more time before timing out. Useful for very slow final "make" runs. | 17:11 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/971 [12arigo, SpecialisedTuples] | 17:26 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/972 [12arigo, temp2] | 17:26 |
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| jterrace | Alex_Gaynor: you spelled W_UnsignedIntgerBox wrong :) | 17:38 |
| fijal | exarkun: cpython_api has a docstring! | 17:42 |
| exarkun | fijal: I moved on | 17:42 |
| exarkun | I don't remember how to set a breakpoint for gdb now. | 17:43 |
| fijal | b lineno | 17:44 |
| fijal | or b funcname | 17:44 |
| fijal | or b filename:lineno | 17:44 |
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| exarkun | none of those seems to work for cpyext | 17:45 |
| fijal | I fear you need to hack cpyext to pass -g to gcc | 17:45 |
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| exarkun | I dunno, I might give up | 17:46 |
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| fijal | :/ | 17:47 |
| exarkun | write more docs, get rid of the redundant dead code sitting around like traps, make debugging possible without sticking in one-time hacks deep in the internals | 17:48 |
| exarkun | maybe I'll succeed next time | 17:48 |
| exarkun | (I know, you have plenty of other things to do instead) | 17:49 |
| fijal | yeah, cpyext is not the sexiest thing to work on | 17:49 |
| exarkun | embedding cpython in pypy was probably fun, and you got an awesome blog post out of it | 17:50 |
| exarkun | but cpyext is probably the thing that's most useful to actual adoption of pypy, for people who have not yet adopted it | 17:51 |
| fijal | yes or no | 17:51 |
| fijal | I can't see cpyext ever dealing with matplotlib | 17:52 |
| kenaan | 12fijal default 11be6e2485ed4a 15/pypy/module/cpyext/api.py: add -g so debugger can be used | 17:52 |
| exarkun | can you see cpython embedded in pypy ever being practically useful to someone? is it ever going to work with a release of pypy, without a checkout of your hacks directory? | 17:52 |
| fijal | exarkun: here you go | 17:52 |
| fijal | good question | 17:53 |
| exarkun | hg won't let me update to that revision | 17:53 |
| fijal | why? | 17:53 |
| exarkun | because I have uncommitted outstanding changes I guess | 17:53 |
| fijal | no, update is fine | 17:54 |
| fijal | hg is happy with that | 17:54 |
| exarkun | abort: outstanding uncommitted changes | 17:54 |
| fijal | when you try to .... | 17:54 |
| fijal | ? | 17:54 |
| fijal | hg pull -u works for me | 17:54 |
| fijal | ? | 17:54 |
| exarkun | uh ok that worked | 17:54 |
| fijal | yeah | 17:54 |
| fijal | it's not the same | 17:54 |
| fijal | (surprise, surprise) | 17:54 |
| fijal | exarkun: I believe my hacks can be useful, I believe it's possible to make it work with the release | 17:55 |
| fijal | and without checkout of my hack dir | 17:55 |
| fijal | what you would do would be pip install pypy_matplotlib_wrapper | 17:55 |
| fijal | that would pull my hacks for you | 17:55 |
| fijal | I got something useful (barely) in day and a half | 17:55 |
| fijal | that might be deceiving but it's better than cpyext | 17:55 |
| exarkun | okay | 17:56 |
| exarkun | and then when I want to use matplotlib to serve up graphs with twisted over https? | 17:56 |
| fijal | this is the only reasonable path I see for matplotlib/scipy | 17:56 |
| fijal | how do you do that now? | 17:56 |
| bbot2 | 13Exception: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/972 [12arigo, temp2] | 17:56 |
| exarkun | well, I can't, because pypy and twisted/https don't work (that's the feature I'm trying to implement) | 17:56 |
| exarkun | but if I ever manage to implement it, then twisted/https will work on pypy with cpyext | 17:57 |
| exarkun | will matplotlib work with pypy with cpyext? | 17:57 |
| exarkun | I still can't set a breakpoint by filename:lineno btw | 17:57 |
| exarkun | I mean, I can set it, but it doesn't break | 17:58 |
| fijal | :( | 17:58 |
| exarkun | oh there we go, using an absolute path worked | 17:58 |
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| exarkun | well, almost | 17:59 |
| fijal | exarkun: it should be possible to mix cpyext and my hacks | 17:59 |
| exarkun | off by line error in the line number handling | 17:59 |
| fijal | with deliberate #defines, like we do when testing | 17:59 |
| fijal | we have deliberate hacks | 17:59 |
| exarkun | ugh, no it's not just an off by one error | 18:00 |
| exarkun | something about optimization I guess | 18:00 |
| exarkun | fijal: well, okay | 18:01 |
| fijal | -O3 is completely unnecessary here | 18:01 |
| fijal | good question how do I remove it | 18:01 |
| exarkun | I got what I needed, just needed to set the breakpoint far earlier than it seemed | 18:02 |
| exarkun | but turning off O3 would be nice for the future | 18:02 |
| fijal | remove -O3 from translator/platform/linux.py | 18:02 |
| exarkun | and okay, obviously it's broken, because tp_as_buffer is full of null function pointers | 18:02 |
| fijal | dunno how to do it nicer | 18:02 |
| exarkun | though I'm pretty sure I saw that those were initialized | 18:03 |
| exarkun | I remember there being something like PyType_Ready somewhere, doing a ton of special-case checks that could maybe be related to this | 18:04 |
| exarkun | but I don't remember where that is | 18:04 |
| exarkun | maybe _type_realize | 18:04 |
| fijal | exarkun: note that I have little experience with cpyext | 18:04 |
| fijal | exarkun: to summarize, I believe my hacks are the right way for some stuff | 18:05 |
| fijal | especially for scientific balls of mud | 18:05 |
| fijal | if we ever want to run them | 18:05 |
| exarkun | partly I'm just annoyed that because people went and wrote all that awful, awful code in matplotlib, it means that you're spending time supporting their crappy stupid code instead of supporting my code | 18:06 |
| exarkun | and also I'm really grumpy today for totally unrelated reasons | 18:06 |
| fijal | well | 18:07 |
| fijal | it won't make you happier, but I'm very unlikely to develop my hacks more, unless someone pays me to do that | 18:07 |
| exarkun | is cpyext/src/bufferobject.c used at all in pypy now? | 18:07 |
| fijal | it's compiled | 18:08 |
| fijal | if it's not full of #if 0, it's used | 18:08 |
| exarkun | okay, I don't see any of those | 18:08 |
| exarkun | it initializes PyBuffer_Type's tp_as_buffer slot with &buffer_as_buffer, which has lots of nice function pointers in it | 18:08 |
| fijal | probably some parts are ignored | 18:08 |
| fijal | like this one | 18:08 |
| exarkun | but the buffer object I get in getargs.c has all nulls | 18:09 |
| fijal | hm | 18:09 |
| fijal | maybe not? | 18:09 |
| Action: fijal is confused | 18:09 | |
| exarkun | am I supposed to add special support for buffer objects to type_attach in typeobject.py? | 18:09 |
| exarkun | is bufferobject.c even implementing the __builtin__.buffer, or is it some other kind of buffer? | 18:09 |
| fijal | good question | 18:10 |
| fijal | I think it's some other buffer | 18:10 |
| fijal | you can look at test_bufferobject | 18:11 |
| fijal | it *seems* to be supported to some degree | 18:11 |
| Action: fijal is confues | 18:11 | |
| exarkun | PyBuffer_Type does seem properly initialized, so I guess it isn't being used in this case | 18:16 |
| exarkun | Though I think it _should_ be used in this case | 18:16 |
| exarkun | Instead some other less-fully-defined buffer type is used | 18:17 |
| jterrace | fijal: how can i skip a numpy test? i cant seem to import py so i can use py.test.skip | 18:23 |
| fijal | jterrace: skip("test") | 18:23 |
| fijal | it "magically" appears in your namespace | 18:23 |
| jterrace | oh | 18:23 |
| jterrace | thanks | 18:23 |
| fijal | it predates my tenure in the project :) | 18:23 |
| jterrace | hehe | 18:23 |
| jterrace | i have more patches in the queue | 18:24 |
| jterrace | i exposed uint8, uint16, and uint32 and made the fromstring function work for other types and parameters | 18:24 |
| jterrace | uint64 is broken so i didnt expose it | 18:25 |
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| fijal | cool | 18:25 |
| jterrace | not sure if alex got to review my tolist pull request | 18:26 |
| exarkun | there's probably no way to go from a _typeobject to its ... definition, is there? | 18:27 |
| exarkun | This type really sucks: http://codepad.org/hxtk1nQP | 18:28 |
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| fijal | tp_bases = <tuple at remote 0xaf63998> | 18:32 |
| fijal | ? | 18:32 |
| exarkun | it's (object,) | 18:33 |
| exarkun | and even though it has tp_as_numeric and a few others, the function pointers inside those structs are all null | 18:33 |
| exarkun | I'm trying to look at the boxing now, since it seems like that's where things go wrong | 18:34 |
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| Nick change: mfoord -> voidspace | 18:35 | |
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| exarkun | is W_TupleObject(<pypy.interpreter.buffer.StringBuffer object at 0xb74f70c>) a tuple with a StringBuffer as its only element? | 18:40 |
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| exarkun | ughhh oh my god, lltype2ctypes | 18:45 |
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| exarkun | there's no way I'll understand this function today | 18:56 |
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| exarkun | Alex_Gaynor: When is PyPy going to be usable, in practice, by the lay person, with a postgresql driver? | 19:32 |
| jterrace | i'm a lay person and i approve this message | 19:33 |
| gsnedders | I'm a lay person and don't want to sound American. | 19:34 |
| fijal | exarkun: have you tried the ctypes-based drivers? | 19:39 |
| exarkun | fijal: no | 19:39 |
| fijal | also pg8000 should work | 19:39 |
| fijal | people reported such stuff working :) | 19:39 |
| exarkun | How "should"? | 19:39 |
| fijal | as in someone said it worked for him | 19:39 |
| fijal | I did not try myself | 19:40 |
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| rokujyouhitoma | Hi, all | 19:51 |
| rokujyouhitoma | I have a question. | 19:51 |
| rokujyouhitoma | I want RPyton interpreter(or RPython implements) is it exist? | 19:52 |
| masquerade | rokujyouhitoma: any python interpreter is also an RPython interpreter | 19:52 |
| rokujyouhitoma | masquerade: yes, I see. it is means RPython is a row layer Python language too. | 19:55 |
| rokujyouhitoma | masquerade: thanks. | 19:55 |
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| gsnedders | Is there any automated regression testing done of major Python projects, to ask a random question? | 19:59 |
| exarkun | gsnedders: http://buildbot.pypy.org/ | 20:00 |
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| jterrace | when i try to pass sep=" " parameter to this function (http://pastebin.com/EY54MBJt) i get (application-level) TypeError: unsupported operand type for int(): 'str' | 20:18 |
| jterrace | i dont understand the error | 20:18 |
| jterrace | the function works otherwise, but only when i try to set "sep" does it fail | 20:19 |
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| jterrace | oh i see | 20:27 |
| jterrace | does space.int(w_item) work if type(w_item) == str? | 20:27 |
| jterrace | seems like it doesnt | 20:27 |
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| jterrace | Alex_Gaynor: ping | 21:11 |
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| Rhy0lite | jterrace: we have him trapped | 21:16 |
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| jterrace | trying to figure out how to convert an object-level string to an interpreter-level int | 21:16 |
| jterrace | space.int(somestr) throws a valueerror | 21:17 |
| Rhy0lite | I mentioned this lack of documentation during the Q&A session after his talk this morning ;-) | 21:18 |
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| ronny | jterrace: whats the type of somestr | 21:33 |
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| jterrace | str | 21:33 |
| jterrace | e.g., space.int(space.wrap('3')) raises ValueError | 21:34 |
| jterrace | what's the correct way to do that? | 21:34 |
| jterrace | int(space.unwrap(w_somestr)) ? | 21:34 |
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| ronny | hmm | 21:37 |
| ronny | ok, im just lost in that code as well | 21:38 |
| jterrace | im talking about the object space functions: http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/objspace.html#operations-on-objects-in-the-object-space | 21:38 |
| jterrace | space.int(space.wrap(3)) returns 3 | 21:38 |
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| fijal | jterrace: what do you want to do? | 21:40 |
| jterrace | this is for numpy.fromstring() | 21:40 |
| jterrace | if i use dtype's coerce method, it throws an error when i give it a string | 21:40 |
| fijal | you have W_StringObject and you want rpython int? | 21:40 |
| jterrace | yes | 21:40 |
| jterrace | or a W_IntObject | 21:41 |
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| fijal | grrrr | 21:46 |
| fijal | space.call_function(space.w_int, space.wrap('3')) | 21:46 |
| fijal | or | 21:46 |
| fijal | int(space.str_w(space.wrap('3'))) | 21:46 |
| fijal | jterrace: ^^^ | 21:46 |
| jterrace | ah | 21:46 |
| Action: fijal off | 21:46 | |
| jterrace | thanks | 21:46 |
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| stakkars_ | hi | 22:11 |
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| CIA-13 | 03r.lobb 07roundup * 10#949/1.7 Sandbox problems: | 22:14 |
| CIA-13 | [chatting] I'd be grateful if someone could either confirm or deny whether the sandbox is | 22:14 |
| CIA-13 | broken in the 1.7 release. I've used the 1.4 version i ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue949 | 22:14 |
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| kenaan | 12ctismer win64-stage1 1191bdfa626831 15/pypy/rlib/test/test_libffi.py: small fix to test_libffi | 22:23 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-macosx-x86-32/builds/739 | 22:36 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/165 | 22:36 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/973 | 22:36 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo default 11eff9db9ac0c8 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/test/test_fficall.py: Python 2.5 compat | 22:46 |
| kenaan | 12arigo default 119b45755e2c2b 15/pypy/jit/backend/: Improve the hack 062e9d06c908: revert the changes done in the RegisterManager, and instead write a more involved bu... | 22:46 |
| kenaan | 12arigo default 1194737f156c30 15/pypy/jit/backend/llsupport/: test and fix | 22:46 |
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| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-win-x86-64/builds/81 [12ctismer, win64-stage1] | 23:09 |
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| Action: mikefc 's mind boggles at the py2k and py3k running simultaneously in pypy | 23:16 | |
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| stakkars_ | on testing: | 23:36 |
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| stakkars_ | there are tests which are failing, and there are tests that are skipped. | 23:36 |
| stakkars_ | many of the skipped tests are skipped because they do not apply, which is ok. | 23:37 |
| stakkars_ | but a few tests are skipped because they don't work, and they are not left as failures, but just skipped | 23:38 |
| stakkars_ | with a message "try to make it run, somehow". | 23:38 |
| stakkars_ | I think this is a problem in the buildbot, because I doubt that someone reads the skipping reasons, but just skips over it. | 23:39 |
| stakkars_ | one way out is to let these tests fail. | 23:39 |
| stakkars_ | another way is to add a new marker that flags the problematic test in an other way as just skipping. | 23:40 |
| stakkars_ | But this way, it is no good and gives the misleading feeling "all ok"! | 23:40 |
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| mikefc | "The revised text handling design in Python 3 is definitely a case of the pursuit of correctness triumphing over convenience." | 23:52 |
| mikefc | "The efficient Unicode representation coming in Python 3.3..." | 23:54 |
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| --- Sat Dec 10 2011 | 00:00 | |
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