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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: heh, getinteriorfield_raw! | 07:57 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: shouldn't we at least discuss with hakanardo or armin or someone? we currently do no caching on any _raw operations | 08:00 |
| fijal | I know | 08:00 |
| fijal | what's the problem anyway? | 08:00 |
| fijal | we only need get_ | 08:01 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it seems safe, any set*_raw should invalidate, and any call | 08:01 |
| Alex_Gaynor | anyway, it's a bit independent of your branch | 08:01 |
| fijal | true | 08:03 |
| fijal | but you can't measure gains without doing it :) | 08:03 |
| fijal | so it's not entirely independent | 08:03 |
| Alex_Gaynor | well, you can measure gains of registers and fewer int_add | 08:03 |
| fijal | fewer int_add give you next to nothing | 08:04 |
| Alex_Gaynor | well, it's a few percent you said? | 08:04 |
| fijal | yes | 08:04 |
| Alex_Gaynor | well, that's something | 08:04 |
| fijal | depends if java is raging in the background :) | 08:04 |
| Alex_Gaynor | :) | 08:05 |
| fijal | it's 0.610s vs 0.640s on my benchmark | 08:06 |
| fijal | which is ~5% | 08:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | 5% | 08:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | not terrible | 08:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | anyway, finish the branch so I can review it | 08:06 |
| fijal | I want get*_raw optimization first! | 08:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | they're totally independent | 08:06 |
| fijal | yes, true | 08:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | get the branch merge ready, I'll make time for interiorfield cachine | 08:07 |
| fijal | a bit boring to have an optimization that does not work ;-) | 08:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | well it does work | 08:07 |
| fijal | how was the sopa hearing? | 08:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | delayed until the 21st | 08:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | they're a mess, but that's life | 08:09 |
| fijal | it's funny | 08:09 |
| Alex_Gaynor | i'm sure it's funny to doctors when they discuss healthcare | 08:10 |
| fijal | I claim healthcare debates are different | 08:11 |
| fijal | because they're primarily about financing not about healthcare methods | 08:11 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Yes, they never actually talk about healthcare ;) | 08:11 |
| fijal | yes | 08:11 |
| fijal | which is a good thing | 08:11 |
| fijal | they should not talk or regulate internet either | 08:11 |
| Alex_Gaynor | probably not, but programming is cool, because the design is the implementation | 08:13 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it's not like engineering where you have blueprints and construction workers | 08:13 |
| Alex_Gaynor | everything is code :) | 08:13 |
| fijal | IBM would not agree | 08:13 |
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| hakanardo | Alex_Gaynor, fijal: caching getfield_raw is bad as it is used to check if a signal has arrived at the end of every loop | 09:45 |
| Alex_Gaynor | hakanardo: ah, indeed, that's a pretty good reason | 09:47 |
| Alex_Gaynor | maybe we need some idea of voliate vs non-voliate reads | 09:48 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I guess right now _gc is non-volatile | 09:49 |
| Alex_Gaynor | _gc also has a writer barrier | 09:49 |
| hakanardo | you'll need armin for that discution :) | 09:51 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: did you see hakanardo's explanation of why caching on _raw isn't sfe ATM? | 10:34 |
| fijal | no? | 10:35 |
| fijal | should I see logs? | 10:35 |
| fijal | we're only planning to cache getinteriorfield_raw | 10:35 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: signal handling. | 10:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | _raw are the only volatile reads we have ATM | 10:36 |
| fijal | but not the interior | 10:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it's the general principle though | 10:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | we need a proper way to distinguish volatile vs. non-volatile reads | 10:36 |
| fijal | yeah well | 10:37 |
| fijal | it's relatively easy | 10:37 |
| Alex_Gaynor | ? | 10:37 |
| fijal | we can just emit getfield_raw_volatile | 10:37 |
| fijal | or so | 10:37 |
| Alex_Gaynor | IMO w ought to try to combine _gc and _raw and put the info on teh descr | 10:38 |
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| fijal | cool, I have NaN items in my shooping cart | 10:42 |
| Alex_Gaynor | :D | 10:43 |
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| fijal | arigato: oh hi armin :) | 10:55 |
| arigato | hi! | 10:55 |
| fijal | arigato: we were just discussing get_*_raw caching | 10:55 |
| arigato | for numpy I guess? | 10:55 |
| fijal | and the problem is that we have to deal with volatile getfield_raw about signals | 10:55 |
| fijal | yes | 10:55 |
| arigato | "yay" | 10:56 |
| fijal | well | 10:56 |
| fijal | we can cheat and cache only getinteriorfield_raw for now | 10:56 |
| fijal | but it does sound a bit excessive | 10:56 |
| fijal | a bit unclean maybe is the right word | 10:56 |
| arigato | the C-like solution is to really mark some reads as volatile | 10:56 |
| fijal | yes | 10:56 |
| fijal | what do you think about just that? | 10:57 |
| arigato | might be needed anyway | 10:57 |
| arigato | sooner or later | 10:57 |
| fijal | ok | 11:00 |
| fijal | maybe indeed after refactor-signature merge | 11:01 |
| fijal | arigato: changing the topic a bit, did you think what to do with functions that are traced over and over | 11:01 |
| fijal | and are always overflowing trace_limit | 11:01 |
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| fijal | this happens when we run apptests on top of pypy | 11:03 |
| fijal | (not the -A one, the full stack) | 11:03 |
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| fijal_ | back | 11:06 |
| Nick change: fijal_ -> fijal | 11:06 | |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: man, flat iterator is annoying | 11:35 |
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| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 112d900cd7e4e3 15/: hg merge default | 11:47 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 11de71b40cee0f 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: kill ExportedState.jump_args | 11:47 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: ping? | 11:48 |
| rinu | how can one run pypy on embedded systems ? | 11:49 |
| fijal | rinu: dunno, what sort of embedded system? | 11:49 |
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| rinu | like in mobile devices | 11:51 |
| rinu | maybe something with the ARM processors | 11:51 |
| fijal | it's pretty hard to run pypy on maybe something | 11:55 |
| fijal | you have to be pretty specific | 11:55 |
| fijal | there is an ARM JIT backend, but it's not yet entirely finished | 11:55 |
| fijal | it vastly depends on the OS as well, but you would likely need to do some work | 11:56 |
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| rinu | is there a implementation of lua on progress using RPython ? | 11:58 |
| fijal | not that I'm aware of | 11:59 |
| fijal | would be pretty cool, but also relatively hard to beat luajit | 11:59 |
| rinu | is luajit faster tan pypy ? | 12:00 |
| rinu | than* | 12:00 |
| fijal | that's a very hard thing to compare, since you don't have a good set of common benchmarks | 12:00 |
| fijal | I would believe luajit is faster on numerical workloads | 12:01 |
| fijal | which is the only thing we can reasonably share | 12:01 |
| fijal | I don't know about say garbage collection | 12:01 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 119756d0eb5d62 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: replace ExportedState.optimizer with ExportedState.exported_values, which conatians the info needed | 12:01 |
| rinu | isnt lua's syntac more readable and similar to that of python's ? | 12:03 |
| rinu | syntax* | 12:03 |
| fijal | syntax is really something on the surface only | 12:03 |
| fijal | python is a much bigger language that lua | 12:04 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa default 111ed3eaa72e9d 15/pypy/interpreter/astcompiler/ast.py: Run ./interpreter/astcompiler/tools/asdl_py.py | 12:04 |
| fijal | and syntax is really irrelevant | 12:04 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa default 11a930e5061f83 15/pypy/interpreter/astcompiler/: Small improvement in generated ast: lineno and col_offset are always at positions 1 and 2, code is simpler and a... | 12:04 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa default 11a699f3064d8f 15/pypy/: Check type of some ast nodes: return.value must be an expr *subclass*, but not an expr! | 12:04 |
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| rinu | why is it that languages like python does not contain pointers ? | 12:05 |
| fijal | because of memory safety | 12:09 |
| fijal | what would you want to do with them? | 12:09 |
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| arigato | rinu: read e.g. http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/java/threads/124625 | 12:10 |
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| arigato | or http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008528.html | 12:11 |
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| rinu5 | is python the only high level programming language used to write another programming language with use of pypy ? | 12:17 |
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| arigato | yes | 12:18 |
| rinu5 | does python have a virtual machine ? | 12:20 |
| ltratt | hi all. I'm trying to get an RPython function to be callable from an external C library. Via the wonders of grep, I eventually stumbled acrosslltype.functionptr, which means I seem to at least somewhat satisfy the RPython type system. But the function I pass as _callable doesn't seem to be translatable into C. "ValueError: don't know how to generate code for <fn start_element>" | 12:20 |
| ltratt | There is a 'graph' argument to functionptr, but frankly I'm buggered if I can work out what it is, how to generate it, or whether I even need to care about it. | 12:20 |
| arigato | rinu5: CPython and PyPy are usually called virtual machines for Python | 12:21 |
| fijal | ltratt: how do you want to pass the function to be called? | 12:21 |
| fijal | ltratt: do you want to pass it as an argument to some C call or to have a known name in C? | 12:22 |
| ltratt | i want to pass a reference to an RPython function to a C library (libxml2) which will then call back to that RPython function. | 12:22 |
| arigato | ltratt: there is an example: qsort() in pypy.rpython.memory.gctransform.asmgcc | 12:22 |
| fijal | you can definitely check how we implemented it :) | 12:23 |
| rinu5 | then how is the VM of python ( pypy ) different from the popular JVM ? | 12:23 |
| arigato | "the" popular JVM? there are tons of VMs for Java too | 12:23 |
| fijal | ltratt: there are examples in say module/_rawffi/callback.py | 12:23 |
| ltratt | fijal and arigato: thanks, i have looked at that asmgcc. but - to an ignoramus such as i - it's a ton of random gloop. | 12:23 |
| arigato | ltratt: grep for qsort() | 12:24 |
| fijal | or module/pyexpat | 12:24 |
| rinu5 | ok but why are languages developed that run on JVM while not for python VM ? | 12:24 |
| arigato | jvm = Java | 12:24 |
| ltratt | aha, llhelper looks like it might be relevant... | 12:25 |
| fijal | rinu5: you mean why is say jython running on jvm but nothing runs on python vms? | 12:25 |
| rinu5 | yes | 12:25 |
| fijal | JVM was advertised it's a good way to do that | 12:26 |
| fijal | python VM not | 12:26 |
| fijal | I think JVM is still a better target, but not a very good one nonetheless | 12:27 |
| arigato | ltratt: actually llhelper() is not really needed in normal cases, I think | 12:27 |
| fijal | it failed to deliver say on performance promises | 12:27 |
| arigato | ltratt: it's needed there because qsort() is a _nowrapper=True function | 12:27 |
| arigato | ltratt: indeed, just look at pypy.rpython.lltypesystem.test.test_rffi | 12:27 |
| arigato | test_c_callback() | 12:28 |
| rinu5 | doesnt pypy convert python code to optimised c code ? | 12:28 |
| arigato | or test_double_callback() | 12:28 |
| ltratt | arigato: i thoroughly failed to understand what test_c_callback is doing | 12:28 |
| ltratt | :) | 12:28 |
| arigato | "eating_callback" is a C function that takes a callback argument that is RPython | 12:29 |
| fijal | rinu5: no | 12:29 |
| arigato | that's g() | 12:29 |
| fijal | rinu5: pypy runs python code which is then on the fly compiled using a JIT to the assembler | 12:29 |
| fijal | when the code gets hot | 12:29 |
| fijal | pretty much what JVM does for Java | 12:29 |
| ltratt | arigato: hmm. | 12:29 |
| fijal | except the architecture is different, but it all looks the same for the user | 12:29 |
| arigato | you see there that you can use rffi.CCallback([argtypes..], resulttype) as the type of the callback argument of the C function | 12:30 |
| ltratt | ah, i hadn't appreciated ccallback. | 12:31 |
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| rinu5 | so pypy converts python code directly to assembly language ? then why cant we use python for anything that we use c/c++ for ? | 12:31 |
| arigato | as you can see in rffi.py, it's really just calling lltype.FuncType() | 12:31 |
| ltratt | in libxml2, i have to pass a struct with a number of function pointers - currently i was typing them as FuncType. i guess they should be CCallback? | 12:32 |
| arigato | ltratt: but it's defined in rffi.py just because it gives a more uniform api | 12:32 |
| fijal | rinu5: we pretty much can, pypy is pretty fast | 12:32 |
| arigato | ltratt: ah, I see. no, CCallback is just the same as Ptr(FuncType(..)) | 12:32 |
| ltratt | ah. | 12:32 |
| fijal | also, just converting to asm does not mean it's efficient | 12:32 |
| arigato | but a struct containing function pointers really requires you to populate it with llhelper() | 12:33 |
| ltratt | so for each field in the sruct, i assign to the pointer with an llhelper basically? | 12:33 |
| arigato | yes | 12:33 |
| rinu5 | i mean really hard stuff like writing a kernel | 12:33 |
| ltratt | arigato: thanks. let me give it a go... | 12:33 |
| arigato | ltratt: and you probably need to do it in RPython code, as opposed to having such a struct prebuilt | 12:33 |
| ltratt | yep, that bit i'd guessed :) | 12:34 |
| ltratt | i'm mallocing memory for the blank struct, then manually populating it | 12:34 |
| arigato | we have some issues with prebuilt llhelpers | 12:34 |
| arigato | ok | 12:34 |
| fijal | rinu5: for a kernel you need some more low-level stuff | 12:34 |
| fijal | like pointers :) | 12:34 |
| fijal | so python is maybe not very good as a language | 12:34 |
| fijal | arigato: I think they either don't work completely or they do work from some point in the past | 12:35 |
| arigato | see the long comment at the start of rpython.annlowlevel.llhelper() | 12:35 |
| fijal | at some point I either made the error obvious or implemented them :) | 12:35 |
| arigato | fijal: yes, something like that | 12:35 |
| arigato | good :-) | 12:35 |
| fijal | but I don't remember which | 12:35 |
| ltratt | arigato: ok, it now compiles :) | 12:35 |
| ltratt | so that's step #1 | 12:36 |
| arigato | I think at some point I stumbled over them not working and hacked a special case (but the general case still doesn't work) | 12:36 |
| arigato | ltratt: llhelper(F, f) basically casts the RPython f to a low-level Ptr(FuncType(..)) type | 12:36 |
| rinu5 | thats why asked about pointers guys.what are other things needed other than pointers ? | 12:37 |
| ltratt | arigato: yep, llhelper is definitely what i needed | 12:37 |
| fijal | rinu5: pointers you can get via ctypes | 12:37 |
| fijal | but it's inconvinient | 12:37 |
| fijal | real time is the hardest part probably | 12:38 |
| ltratt | and then i appear to need to pass a Ptr(FuncType) for F | 12:38 |
| rinu5 | thank you so much fijal and arigato , you guys are so friendly... | 12:39 |
| arigato | ltratt: yes, which is the same as you need in the Struct declaration for the fields | 12:39 |
| rinu5 | have a good day! | 12:39 |
| arigato | rinu5: see you! | 12:39 |
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| ltratt | arigato: indeed | 12:40 |
| arigato | ltratt: if you feel like writing complete libxml2 RPython bindings, we would certainly be interested in using them for pypy too :-) | 12:42 |
| ltratt | at the moment, i am just trying to get the damned thing to compile ;) | 12:43 |
| arigato | :-) | 12:43 |
| ltratt | converge only uses a very small subset of libxml2's functionality. a full XML library for all the horrible corner cases is a large amount of work... | 12:43 |
| fijal | ltratt: it's maybe worth noting *with tests* | 12:43 |
| arigato | ltratt: yes, I feared so | 12:44 |
| ltratt | arigato: and, worse, most of it is for stuff that no-one in their right mind would ever want to use... | 12:45 |
| arigato | no point in complaining about xml to me :-) | 12:46 |
| ltratt | hehe, yes, i guess I am amongst friends in this regard ;) | 12:46 |
| fijal | :-) | 12:46 |
| arigato | llibxml2 is one of the most-wanted third-party Python library for pypy | 12:46 |
| arigato | but none of us cares :-/ | 12:47 |
| ltratt | i can hardly say i blame you ;) | 12:47 |
| ltratt | at the very least, the small part implemented in the Converge VM will give someone a head-start if they're brave enough to implement the whole thing as an RPython library. | 12:48 |
| ltratt | [assuming i get it to work ;)] | 12:48 |
| arigato | fijal: ah, or was it lxml? I think it's a different set of bindings over the same C librar | 12:48 |
| arigato | y | 12:48 |
| fijal | lxml | 12:49 |
| fijal | lxml is a mess though | 12:49 |
| fijal | I looked at the code one day | 12:49 |
| ltratt | lxml is a layer over libxml2, so i guess it would still want native libxml2 bindings underneath | 12:49 |
| fijal | ltratt: it vastly depends how much you want to reimplement this | 12:50 |
| fijal | but it occurs to me there are not that many people who would love such job | 12:50 |
| ltratt | i agree wholeheartedly on both points! | 12:50 |
| ltratt | this is the sort of thing you have to pay people to do, because it's too damned boring to do voluntarily... | 12:50 |
| fijal | yes | 12:51 |
| arigato | fijal: it's Cython, right? | 12:51 |
| fijal | and I don't quite see anyone caching out on that | 12:51 |
| fijal | hell, I probably wouldn't even like to do it for money too much | 12:51 |
| fijal | arigato: yes, but a reasonably ugly cython | 12:51 |
| fijal | it's C | 12:51 |
| fijal | with usage of CPython C API | 12:51 |
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| fijal | arigato: I envy CPython devs, they can measure a 2% increase in speed | 13:01 |
| arigato | :-) | 13:01 |
| arigato | Linux kernel devs measure 0.15% increases | 13:01 |
| kenaan | 12fijal refactor-signature 11e3cef40afa0d 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/interp_numarray.py: clean up descr_len | 13:01 |
| fijal | wow | 13:03 |
| fijal | I guess they don't have other-stuff-that-runs-at-the-same-time to worry about | 13:03 |
| arigato | yes | 13:03 |
| ltratt | My multitime program is a dirt simple way of getting some idea whether "stuff that ran at the same time" corrupted results. http://tratt.net/laurie/src/multitime/ | 13:05 |
| ltratt | i warn you though: it is dirt simple | 13:05 |
| fijal | ltratt: better than no solution at all | 13:05 |
| ltratt | it's proved useful to me | 13:05 |
| ltratt | if you run something 5 times and the standard deviations are small, it gives a reasonable level of confidence about the numbers | 13:06 |
| fijal | I usually do this anyway, but looking by hand | 13:06 |
| ltratt | cool, well multitime might be useful to you then. it's certainly easier to have a script do the maths than try and do it in my head ;) | 13:08 |
| fijal | yes :) | 13:08 |
| arigato | :-) | 13:08 |
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| Action: fijal realizes "now we don't need all this code any more" | 13:11 | |
| Action: arigato struggles to find the simplest model to clean up the NEWxxx operation mess in the backend | 13:13 | |
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| fijal | arigato: op_malloc branch? | 13:21 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 114054e3b40851 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: cleanup | 13:22 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 112653c963abd8 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: rename start_resumedescr to resume_at_jump_descr | 13:22 |
| arigato | fijal: yes | 13:22 |
| fijal | :/ | 13:22 |
| fijal | of course part of the problem is the boehm support | 13:22 |
| arigato | not really | 13:22 |
| fijal | it was a source of some mess there last time I checked | 13:23 |
| fijal | so what's the issue? | 13:23 |
| fijal | maybe you can rubber duck it with me, I don't seem to be any usable otherwise | 13:23 |
| arigato | I just want to remove as many special cases as possible from the backend, and move it to llsupport | 13:24 |
| arigato | I'm thinking now about adding these two backend-only operations: | 13:24 |
| arigato | + 'CALL_MALLOC_GC/*d', # like CALL, but NULL => propagate MemoryError | 13:24 |
| arigato | + 'CALL_MALLOC_NURSERY/1', # nursery malloc, const number of bytes, zeroed | 13:24 |
| fijal | and they would replace pretty much everything else? | 13:28 |
| arigato | yes | 13:28 |
| fijal | sounds good to me | 13:29 |
| arigato | all the NEWxxx operations | 13:29 |
| arigato | ok :-) | 13:29 |
| fijal | it seemed back in the day that a coarse-grained resop is a good think for the backend :) | 13:29 |
| fijal | what if CALL_MALLOC_NURSERY fails? | 13:29 |
| fijal | is it like NEW? | 13:29 |
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| arigato | no, CALL_MALLOC_NURSERY really means "try to allocate inline, if that fails do the CALL, and that can in turn fail like CALL_MALLOC_GC" | 13:30 |
| fijal | ok | 13:30 |
| fijal | you know what would be really cool, although hard? | 13:30 |
| arigato | ? .-) | 13:30 |
| fijal | to be able to express the conditional stuff in resops | 13:30 |
| arigato | yes | 13:30 |
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| fijal | so we don't have to handcode it | 13:31 |
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| arigato | yes, although I'm not sure it would end up with the same efficient register allocation | 13:31 |
| arigato | e.g. COND_CALL_stuff | 13:31 |
| arigato | we can express the check of the byte with several INT_xxx operations | 13:31 |
| arigato | but that means register allocation | 13:32 |
| arigato | instead in COND_CALL_xx it's special-cased | 13:32 |
| arigato | using particular instructions like TEST [memory], 0xvalue | 13:32 |
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| arigato | "obviously" the right thing is to expand it as several instructions and have a very good register allocator able to recombine it, but well... | 13:33 |
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| fijal | the thing we completely don't have right now is merging | 13:38 |
| fijal | if you don't have merging, it's a bit pointless | 13:38 |
| arigato | yes | 13:38 |
| fijal | but I guess it's possible to play with a better register allocator | 13:38 |
| fijal | more importantly you would be able to express some things like list_resize or dict_lookup as a small conditional barrier | 13:38 |
| fijal | so you would win somewhere else | 13:38 |
| arigato | yes | 13:39 |
| fijal | it's probably well worth trying | 13:41 |
| Action: fijal is moving some stuff on numpy from non-obviously unsupported -> officially unsupported -> removed -> supported | 13:41 | |
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| fijal | it occurs to me "there is support, but it does not work" is worse than "it's unsupported" | 13:45 |
| Nick change: DasIch_ -> DasIch | 13:47 | |
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| ltratt | hmm, head seems broken to me: http://pastebin.com/zRJQsg4M | 13:59 |
| fijal | ltratt: uh yes, I broke it | 13:59 |
| fijal | ltratt: let me fix it | 14:00 |
| ltratt | ok :) | 14:00 |
| kenaan | 12fijal refactor-signature 112e85e96a3a5b 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: Refactoring in progress - code removal. | 14:01 |
| kenaan | 12fijal default 11e42742946b48 15/pypy/tool/gcc_cache.py: Temporarily revert 976baeae86ed, seems to break some stuff for obscure reasons | 14:01 |
| fijal | kenaan: hello? | 14:01 |
| fijal | ok good | 14:01 |
| fijal | ltratt: "for now" | 14:01 |
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| -ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)- [#pypy] Welcome! | 14:45 | |
| -ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)- [#stackless] Welcome to #stackless. This channel is for the discussion of matters relating to Stackless Python. Remember that others in this channel may not be in the same timezone as you, so stick around for an answer (even if only in your channel history) if you ask a question. The mailing list is also recommended as being a faster place to get help (http://www.stackless.com/mailman/listinfo/stackless). | 14:46 | |
| izibi | exarkun: one time i got this traceback: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/521920/ | 14:48 |
| izibi | but only one time | 14:48 |
| exarkun | That seems useful. | 14:48 |
| izibi | exarkun: and i got another one: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/522085/ | 14:49 |
| izibi | but most times the process just exits | 14:50 |
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| exarkun | Someone else will have to help interpret those, though, I don't know what they mean. | 14:51 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 11c69acd44808e 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: rename to indicate that it belongs to the short_preamble and not the current part | 14:51 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 111dfa4f95ba02 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: not needed since the hack adding ops at the begining of newoperations was removed | 14:51 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 1169c7bd4e7bac 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: always assign self.inputargs | 14:51 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 119e63288cc721 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: labels always have descr | 14:51 |
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| rguillebert | izibi, it might be in a library | 15:01 |
| izibi | rguillebert: one thing i could imagine: arch links it to different library versions than the official binary | 15:01 |
| izibi | that's why i can't test it with the official one. the libs it's linked again are missing | 15:02 |
| rguillebert | you can monkey patch sys.exit to see where it's called (if it's called by python code) | 15:03 |
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| izibi | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/522093/ | 15:05 |
| izibi | only differences are libssl and libcrypto | 15:06 |
| rguillebert | which one doesn't work ? | 15:08 |
| izibi | /usr/bin/pypy is the one from arch and doesn't work | 15:08 |
| izibi | can't test the official build as lib{ssl,crypto}.so.0.9.8 is missing here | 15:09 |
| izibi | i'll compile an older version of openssl and we'll see | 15:09 |
| rguillebert | your tracebacks don't seem to have anything to do with linking | 15:12 |
| exarkun | if I understand, the tracebacks are from the arch-supplied PyPy, which is linked against the arch-supplied openssl properly | 15:12 |
| exarkun | and izibi hasn't tested moin in the official PyPy binary release, because that one is linked against libraries he doesn't have | 15:13 |
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| izibi | exarkun: right | 15:14 |
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| izibi | maybe it's more an arch issue, i don't know | 15:15 |
| arigato | izibi: you can use the more recent nightly builds | 15:15 |
| arigato | they don't have the libssl.so.0.9.8 issue | 15:15 |
| arigato | (which is just a warning anyway) | 15:15 |
| izibi | arigato: are they linked agains openssl 1.0.0? | 15:16 |
| arigato | no, but as far as I know it works against openssl 1.0.0 too | 15:16 |
| arigato | I may be wrong | 15:16 |
| rguillebert | but you still need to recompile it :) | 15:16 |
| arigato | no | 15:16 |
| arigato | or maybe yes and then I'm sorry for giving misleading comments :-) | 15:17 |
| rguillebert | the last patch I saw about openssl was because debian used openssl1.0.0 (which dropped SSLv2 afaik) and compilation failed because it wanted the SSLv2 functions | 15:19 |
| rguillebert | maybe there was a patch after that | 15:19 |
| izibi | no, nightlies are linked against 0.9.8 | 15:21 |
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| rguillebert | they probably aren't ABI-compatible anyway | 15:24 |
| exarkun | They're like 97% ABI compatible. :) | 15:26 |
| exarkun | And PyPy really probably does stick to the compatible part | 15:26 |
| exarkun | But everything has to suck, because only the ABI as a whole is versioned, and there's no tools that can look at the application and the library and tell you the subset in use is actually safe. | 15:27 |
| rguillebert | izibi, can you try LD_PRELOAD="/path/to/openssl" pypy-1.7/bin/pypy ? | 15:30 |
| rguillebert | (I know...) | 15:30 |
| rguillebert | LD_PRELOAD="/usr/lib/libssl.so.1.0.0" pypy-1.7/bin/pypy | 15:33 |
| izibi | ./pypy-1.7/bin/pypy: error while loading shared libraries: libssl.so.0.9.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 15:34 |
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| izibi | i can start the official pypy build with a self-compiled lib{ssl,crypto}, let's see what happens | 15:37 |
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| rguillebert | http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=36308 | 15:38 |
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| izibi | yeah, just compiled that myself :D | 15:39 |
| rguillebert | oh yes, it's not binaries :p | 15:40 |
| izibi | and it still crashes | 15:41 |
| izibi | with the official pypy build | 15:41 |
| rguillebert | with the same error ? | 15:42 |
| izibi | with no error as it does most times | 15:42 |
| izibi | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/522108/ | 15:43 |
| izibi | some more output before this but just logging information as you can see it there | 15:43 |
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| rguillebert | I guess you need to use gdb to know where it crashes in C code | 15:56 |
| rguillebert | or pdb in python code, but it's probably C code | 15:56 |
| izibi | i've never used gdb. i can try if someone tells me step by step what to do ;) | 16:00 |
| exarkun | gdb --args /path/to/pypy [args to run moin] | 16:01 |
| exarkun | You'll get a gdb prompt | 16:01 |
| exarkun | which lets you do lots of things | 16:01 |
| exarkun | if you want a breakpoint on `exit´, then `break exit´ | 16:02 |
| exarkun | if you want to run the program, `run´ | 16:02 |
| exarkun | when the program is running, C-c will interrupt it | 16:02 |
| exarkun | and drop you into a gdb prompt again | 16:03 |
| exarkun | from which point you can inspect things, like the C call stack, `bt´ | 16:03 |
| exarkun | or resume the program, `continue´ | 16:03 |
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| exarkun | if it actually crashes, you should get the gdb prompt again and you can see where it crashed | 16:03 |
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| exarkun | if it hits a breakpoint, you'll get the gdb prompt as well | 16:03 |
| izibi | exarkun: "Function "exit" not defined." on break exit. is that normal? | 16:05 |
| izibi | Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) | 16:05 |
| exarkun | That doesn't sound normal, no. | 16:05 |
| exarkun | Maybe it'll be okay | 16:05 |
| exarkun | It's worth a try at least. | 16:05 |
| izibi | anyway, i'll try to crash it and we'll see | 16:05 |
| izibi | i'll try pypy from the arch package first | 16:06 |
| arigato | TooMuchClevernessAlwaysComeBackToHitYouError | 16:08 |
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| arigato | llsupport/descr.py cleverly ensures that some fields like _is_float_field are actually class attributes, not stored on every instance | 16:09 |
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| arigato | but of course this was made bogus by the introduction of DynamicFieldDescr | 16:09 |
| arigato | so now descr.py contains useless obscure cleverness | 16:09 |
| izibi | exarkun: Breakpoint 1, 0x00007ffff5ee74c0 in exit () from /lib/libc.so.6 | 16:10 |
| exarkun | izibi: cool | 16:10 |
| rguillebert | now try bt | 16:10 |
| rguillebert | the command "bt" | 16:10 |
| exarkun | and cross your fingers | 16:10 |
| izibi | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/522120/ | 16:11 |
| exarkun | So sad | 16:11 |
| rguillebert | erf | 16:11 |
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| exarkun | It sorta looks like a return-from-main exit? | 16:11 |
| exarkun | But I don't know | 16:11 |
| arigato | sys.exit() would cause that | 16:12 |
| exarkun | ah. | 16:12 |
| arigato | it raises SystemExit that is caught in the main() | 16:12 |
| exarkun | izibi looked around at the Python code, he didn't find anything there that explains this behavior | 16:12 |
| arigato | patch sys.exit at the level of Python, I suppose | 16:13 |
| izibi | monkeypatching? or is there a better way? | 16:14 |
| arigato | monkeypatching is good .-) | 16:14 |
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| arigato | though that wouldn't catch "raise SystemExit(245)" | 16:15 |
| arigato | better actually to write (in Python) around the main function: | 16:15 |
| arigato | try: | 16:15 |
| arigato | except SystemExit, e: | 16:15 |
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| arigato | import traceback; traceback.print_exc() | 16:16 |
| arigato | sys.exit() just raises SystemExit, so you don't need to patch it if you add the "except SystemExit" trick. | 16:16 |
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| izibi | i have an idea what could be going on, let's see | 16:20 |
| izibi | werkzeugs reloader starts a new process. and it just passes through the exit code | 16:29 |
| izibi | yes, it just passes through the exit code | 16:30 |
| izibi | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/522128/ | 16:32 |
| exarkun | Sounds like the werkzeugs reloader is buggy, then, if it's turning a segfault into exit status 245. | 16:36 |
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| exarkun | Hm. PyCrypto generates incorrect RSA signatures on PyPy. :( | 16:38 |
| izibi | https://github.com/mitsuhiko/werkzeug/blob/master/werkzeug/serving.py#L562 | 16:39 |
| exarkun | Yea, that's bogus. | 16:40 |
| exarkun | subprocess.call does not return a value that can be passed meaningfully to sys.exit. | 16:41 |
| exarkun | Maybe you should switch to hosting moin in Twisted. >:P | 16:41 |
| exarkun | For starters, can you try to reproduce the moin/pypy crash without using the reloader? | 16:42 |
| izibi | let's see | 16:45 |
| izibi | i guess with the reloader it would have crashed by now | 16:45 |
| izibi | i get errors because of too many open files, but that's a different thing ;) | 16:46 |
| izibi | so who's doing something wrong? werkzeug or pypy? :D | 16:47 |
| exarkun | If you can't get moin to crash without using werkzeug's reloader, then I'd try getting a much simpler application to crash using werkzeug's reloader | 16:48 |
| exarkun | And then perhaps you can either blame werkzeug, or at least have a much simpler example of a bug in PyPy. | 16:49 |
| exarkun | It's probably also a good idea to file a bug against werkzeug for the subprocess.call/sys.exit confusion. | 16:50 |
| exarkun | That's just a bug in werkzeug that should be fixed. | 16:50 |
| exarkun | (but it's only making things confusing in this case, I doubt it's actually the cause of the crashes) | 16:51 |
| izibi | "Run the command described by args. Wait for command to complete, then return the returncode attribute." | 16:51 |
| exarkun | izibi: The RPython tracebacks you reported earlier _are_ PyPy bugs though. You should try to get arigato to look at them. :) | 16:51 |
| izibi | what's the difference between returncode and the value you pass to sys.exit? i guess i'm also confused by that :D | 16:52 |
| exarkun | izibi: For example, if a process ends because it receives SIGSEGV, then subprocess.call will return -11 | 16:52 |
| exarkun | izibi: But sys.exit(-11) has a completely different meaning | 16:52 |
| arigato | and of course 245 = 256-11 | 16:53 |
| izibi | ah! that explains the return code (or however you want to call it) :D | 16:53 |
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| ltratt | I think I am doing something dumb with rffi as libxml2 is segfaulting on me. Here's a really minimal libxml2 using C program which doesn't segfault http://pastebin.com/r9zQAXc2 and here's my RPython code http://pastebin.com/XhRpWd9y | 17:04 |
| ltratt | i wonder if i am doing something with the strings that i am passing in... | 17:05 |
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| ltratt | essentially, i get a segfault in a method called from xmlSAXUserParseMemory in the RPython version | 17:05 |
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| arigato | are you sure you don't need to initialize 'w'? | 17:09 |
| arigato | it's not zero-filled | 17:09 |
| ltratt | w? h? | 17:10 |
| ltratt | i thought everything was zero filled by default? certainly printing out a couple of parts seemed to suggest it was. | 17:10 |
| izibi | any idea how to find out what's the last call in the python code before it crashes? | 17:10 |
| ltratt | arigato: is there an easy way to zero-fill? i can't see a memset definition lurking anywhere obvious. | 17:11 |
| arigato | ltratt: no, neither malloc nor scoped_alloc zero-fill by default | 17:11 |
| arigato | you can call scoped_alloc(xmlType, zero=True) | 17:12 |
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| arigato | or in C, call calloc() instead of malloc() | 17:12 |
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| arigato | izibi: hard. I would suggest to run it in gdb in a version of pypy compiled with debugging symbols | 17:13 |
| ltratt | ok, i could swear i'd seen a comment in PyPy suggesting it was zero filled. My bad! I'm trying "zero=True" now. | 17:13 |
| arigato | izibi: if that's beyond you, you can put a bug report instead | 17:13 |
| fijal | uh, do we have a segfault? | 17:14 |
| arigato | izibi: please describe everything that we need to reproduce the crash | 17:14 |
| arigato | fijal: yes | 17:14 |
| fijal | :/ | 17:14 |
| arigato | no clue, maybe it's a ctypes misusage or something | 17:14 |
| fijal | is cpyext involved? | 17:14 |
| fijal | izibi: ah, by the way. are you using jinja2? | 17:14 |
| fijal | if so, is this the very last release of jinja2? | 17:14 |
| ltratt | arigato: you're a star - zero=True does what i hoped. i can't believe i fell for that particular mistake. c'est la vie ;) | 17:15 |
| izibi | yes, moin uses ninja2 | 17:15 |
| arigato | :-) | 17:15 |
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| fijal | izibi: upgrade your jinja2 | 17:16 |
| fijal | the previous versions of jinja do very dubious things with ctypes | 17:16 |
| fijal | like manipulating tracebacks | 17:17 |
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| izibi | fijal: i'm currently on 2.6 | 17:18 |
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| fijal | should be good | 17:20 |
| Action: fijal off | 17:20 | |
| kenaan | 12arigo op_malloc_gc 11fc4c51ca1ec4 15/pypy/jit/backend/llsupport/: In-progress. | 17:22 |
| kenaan | 12arigo op_malloc_gc 112011f2788757 15/pypy/jit/backend/llsupport/test/test_rewrite.py: Fix some more tests. | 17:22 |
| kenaan | 12arigo op_malloc_gc 11ac65509a7f46 15/pypy/jit/backend/llsupport/: In-progress. | 17:22 |
| kenaan | 12arigo op_malloc_gc 119d09995aae35 15/pypy/jit/backend/llsupport/: Finish test_rewrite.TestFramework. | 17:22 |
| kenaan | 12arigo op_malloc_gc 11bab5597339cc 15/pypy/jit/: Start to reorganize dsecr.py to kill the obscure (and now half pointless) inheritance. | 17:22 |
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| izibi | this is how to reproduce the segfault: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/522161/ | 17:33 |
| izibi | (at least on archlinux, didn't test it elsewhere) | 17:33 |
| izibi | maybe someone can test this on another distribution | 17:34 |
| izibi | oh and you have to run a large number of http requests to crash it | 17:35 |
| izibi | for example with apache bench: ab -n 1000 -c http://127.0.0.1:8080/Home | 17:35 |
| Da_Blitz | izibi: have you tried lodging a bug on the bug tracker? | 17:36 |
| izibi | Da_Blitz: no, not yet, but it would be nice to know if this is specific to arch linux | 17:37 |
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| Da_Blitz | izibi: i have it exit after a couple of reqeusts as well on debian with pypy 1.7 from the website | 17:59 |
| izibi | Da_Blitz: echo $? | 18:01 |
| izibi | does it output 245? | 18:01 |
| Da_Blitz | one sec | 18:02 |
| Da_Blitz | thats the one | 18:02 |
| Da_Blitz | in case you need it, debian 6.0.3 | 18:03 |
| izibi | thx | 18:03 |
| Da_Blitz | np | 18:03 |
| rguillebert | I'll investigate after dinner | 18:12 |
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| exarkun | rguillebert: How's cython/pypy these days? Still sleeping? | 18:49 |
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| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 114014ad4062c5 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/: refactor a bit and make sure import_state import_state sets things up properly even if there is nothing ... | 19:02 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 117f2f31e8e4bd 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: allow the metainterpreter to request an label by placing it in the unoptimized trace | 19:02 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 11bd3c0ac15e47 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: kill old retrace logic no longer used | 19:02 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 11e65693cb1de5 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: kill old interface for calling optimizeopt, its no longer used | 19:02 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 119bc137b88407 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: moved retrace count check up one level | 19:02 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 11f98a2c88a795 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: kill did_import | 19:02 |
| kenaan | 12hakanardo jit-multilabel 114f6581643f66 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/unroll.py: translation fixes | 19:02 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/637 [12hakanardo, jit-multilabel] | 19:03 |
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| rguillebert | exarkun, yes, I'm writing an email to get in merged in the main repo | 19:12 |
| rguillebert | but I'll work on it at the next sprint | 19:13 |
| exarkun | cool | 19:17 |
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| izibi | Da_Blitz: did you test on i386 or amd64 btw? | 20:01 |
| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/637 [12hakanardo, jit-multilabel] | 20:03 |
| rguillebert | izibi, ". ./env/bin/activate" | 20:04 |
| rguillebert | isn't "source ./env/bin/activate" ? | 20:04 |
| rguillebert | s/isn't/isn't is supposed to be/ | 20:05 |
| izibi | rguillebert: both work | 20:05 |
| rguillebert | I'm not sure | 20:05 |
| Nick change: squiddy_ -> squiddy | 20:05 | |
| rguillebert | oh yes nevermind | 20:06 |
| izibi | rguillebert: "This builtin ['.'] is equivalent to source." http://www.gnu.org/s/bash/manual/html_node/Bourne-Shell-Builtins.html | 20:09 |
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| rguillebert | yes I thought it was just an equivalent of "bash" | 20:11 |
| rguillebert | AKA run the script in a subprocess | 20:11 |
| nirbheek | "./" != ". " | 20:13 |
| nirbheek | in the former it's a path specifier, in the latter it's a command | 20:13 |
| rguillebert | I have the same bug | 20:17 |
| rguillebert | on 32bits | 20:17 |
| izibi | ThomasWaldmann tested on ubuntu 11.10 32bit and there it worked. very strange | 20:25 |
| rguillebert | I have the same distribution | 20:27 |
| rguillebert | I did 100 requests in parallel | 20:28 |
| izibi | there's only one worker thread so this doesn't matter | 20:28 |
| izibi | i can crash it by holding down F5 in a browser | 20:28 |
| rguillebert | it works properly with an old pypy I had on my hdd | 20:33 |
| izibi | sounds like fun with bisect? :D | 20:36 |
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| rguillebert | I'm translating with debugging symbols | 20:45 |
| rguillebert | so we'll see | 20:46 |
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| arigato | izibi: fwiw I'm still getting OperationalError: (OperationalError) near " ": syntax error u'INSERT INTO etc | 20:57 |
| arigato | I remember being told that it's ok if you start moin once with CPython, but well | 20:57 |
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| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 112258d6a11e06 15/: hg merge defaults | 21:31 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 116a82b1beaf24 15/pypy/module/_ssl/: Remove "issuer" and "server" attributes from ssl socket. + Fix shutdown test | 21:31 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 118d91b7ba9f7c 15/pypy/: Fix a crash when the 'str' unwrap_spec is given a non-ascii unicode string. Now it automatically converts to utf_8 ... | 21:31 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 114c7922f5a847 15/pypy/interpreter/pyparser/data/Grammar3.2: Remove "except Exception, e" syntax. Expected to break a lot of code... | 21:31 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 113f837e62c8c0 15/pypy/: Fix compiler: the exception handler target is now a NAME (and not any assignment target as before). Still missing: ... | 21:31 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 11c13feede4946 15/pypy/module/_multibytecodec/: Unicode fixes in _multibytecodec module | 21:31 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 11e20a4198d35c 15/pypy/module/bz2/: Unicode fixes for the bz2 module | 21:31 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 118d890adadd94 15/pypy/module/bz2/: Fix BZ2File by importing the applevel version from CPython 3.3. | 21:31 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/1474 [12amaury, py3k] | 21:31 |
| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/1474 [12amaury, py3k] | 21:33 |
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| kenaan | 12amauryfa py3k 11c0d4b0fdc8f1 15/pypy/module/bz2/app_bz2file.py: Try to fix translation | 21:45 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/1475 [12amaury, py3k] | 21:45 |
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| lahwran | ooh, py3k | 22:00 |
| lahwran | how is that coming, by the way? on a scale of 0-2 perhaps, where 0 = starting, 1 = not sure, and 2 = almost done | 22:01 |
| lahwran | or maybe a bit less detailed; first half or second half? | 22:04 |
| MostAwesomeDude | lahwran: How do you quantify such a thing? | 22:04 |
| MostAwesomeDude | I guess if we had a page somewhere with the list of tasks required to support it... | 22:04 |
| lahwran | I was hoping someone working on it might be able to go "well, it doesn't feel very done, so probably a 0" | 22:04 |
| lahwran | or "it feels pretty close, maybe a 2" | 22:05 |
| exarkun | I expect it's a lot closer to 0 than 2. | 22:05 |
| lahwran | oic. | 22:05 |
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