#pypy IRC log for Wednesday, 2011-12-21

stakkars_ (~tismer@82.113.121.104) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds00:18
tito (~tito@pdpc/supporter/active/tito) left irc: Quit: leaving00:29
tito_ (~tito@178.73.217.93) joined #pypy.00:29
Nick change: tito_ -> tito00:29
tito (~tito@178.73.217.93) left irc: Changing host00:29
tito (~tito@pdpc/supporter/active/tito) joined #pypy.00:29
rekamso (~textual@67.51.82.66) left irc: Quit: derp00:29
etrepum_ (~bob@accessnat4.mochimedia.net) joined #pypy.00:34
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/1482 [12amaury, py3k]00:36
etrepum (~bob@accessnat4.mochimedia.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds00:36
etrepum_ (~bob@accessnat4.mochimedia.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds00:38
antocuni (~antocuni@host117-71-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds00:47
bbot23Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64-2/builds/701:04
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-macosx-x86-32/builds/75101:16
tilgovi (~randall@couchdb/developer/tilgovi) left irc: Remote host closed the connection01:27
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/189501:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/64201:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/31201:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/65001:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/116701:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-Ojit-no-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/83401:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/29801:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/148301:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/75801:30
ericflo (~ericflo@75.103.8.110) left irc: Quit: ericflo01:57
voidspace (~anonymous@python/psf/voidspace) left irc: Quit: voidspace02:01
zain (~textual@c-67-160-201-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/02:03
zain (~textual@c-67-160-201-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #pypy.02:06
Vorpal (~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster) joined #pypy.02:06
bbot24Finished ??: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/29802:10
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/29902:14
bbot23Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/98702:17
bbot24Finished ??: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/29902:21
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/30002:23
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) joined #pypy.02:26
Rhyolite (~dje@pool-108-6-25-71.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) joined #pypy.02:30
Ademan (~dan@adsl-71-141-224-79.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #pypy.02:30
etrepum (~bob@75-101-96-144.dsl.static.sonic.net) joined #pypy.02:33
bbot24Finished ??: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/30002:44
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/30102:44
kennethreitz (~kennethre@c-24-127-96-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #pypy.02:44
etrepum (~bob@75-101-96-144.dsl.static.sonic.net) left irc: Quit: etrepum02:46
dracman (~draco@212.255.46.27) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds02:49
dracman (~draco@212.255.40.253) joined #pypy.02:55
etrepum (~bob@75-101-96-144.dsl.static.sonic.net) joined #pypy.02:59
etrepum (~bob@75-101-96-144.dsl.static.sonic.net) left irc: Client Quit03:02
mcdonc (~mcdonc@ip72-209-213-54.dc.dc.cox.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection03:08
mcdonc (~mcdonc@ip72-209-213-54.dc.dc.cox.net) joined #pypy.03:10
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds03:17
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds03:51
bbot23Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/17803:59
_habnabit (~habnabit@python/site-packages/habnabit) left irc: Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net04:01
nettok (~quassel@200.119.152.93) joined #pypy.04:04
_habnabit (~habnabit@2001:470:1f0e:bdd::2) joined #pypy.04:05
_habnabit (~habnabit@2001:470:1f0e:bdd::2) left irc: Excess Flood04:05
_habnabit (~habnabit@2001:470:1f0e:bdd::2) joined #pypy.04:06
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) joined #pypy.04:09
_habnabit (~habnabit@2001:470:1f0e:bdd::2) left irc: Client Quit04:10
_habnabit (~habnabit@2001:470:1f0e:bdd::2) joined #pypy.04:11
_habnabit (~habnabit@2001:470:1f0e:bdd::2) left irc: Changing host04:11
_habnabit (~habnabit@python/site-packages/habnabit) joined #pypy.04:11
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds04:14
nettok (~quassel@200.119.152.93) left irc: Remote host closed the connection04:18
nettok (~quassel@200.119.152.93) joined #pypy.04:19
YellowOnion (~huh@2406:e000:61d1:0:1572:1353:2179:283b) joined #pypy.04:21
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) joined #pypy.04:25
kenaan12alex_gaynor default 11d84a162addff 15/pypy/objspace/std/stringobject.py: fix backwards logic04:25
bbot213Exception: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/30104:26
asmeurer__ (~asmeurer@c-174-56-21-245.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) joined #pypy.04:30
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds04:31
nettok (~quassel@200.119.152.93) left irc: Remote host closed the connection04:38
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) joined #pypy.04:38
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds04:43
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) joined #pypy.04:52
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds04:58
anish_ (anish@nat/redhat/x-toyivvikwpkrmeie) joined #pypy.04:59
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/189505:01
mattip (2e745f68@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.116.95.104) joined #pypy.05:26
mattipone for the logs:05:33
mattipI added a windows buildbot, but neglected to provide sqlite3.dll05:34
mattipTwo interesting things happened.05:34
mattipBuild failed in step 10 compress, but then went on to step 11 upload05:35
tilgovi (~randall@c-98-210-155-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #pypy.05:36
tilgovi (~randall@c-98-210-155-124.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) left irc: Changing host05:36
tilgovi (~randall@couchdb/developer/tilgovi) joined #pypy.05:36
mattipAnd now on nightly downloads, the latest win32 build has size 005:36
mattip;(05:36
mattipIt also seems bigboard's windows build is waiting for someone to click "OK" on the error dialog box.05:38
mattipsince that build started before my latest patch which should prevent that dialog box from opening05:38
mattip (2e745f68@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.116.95.104) left irc: Quit: Page closed05:39
Vorpal (~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds05:47
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/148306:03
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-Ojit-no-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/83406:06
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/116706:22
bbot23Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/65006:30
ronnymoin06:35
asmeurer__ (~asmeurer@c-174-56-21-245.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: asmeurer__06:40
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/64206:42
mvt (~mvantelli@87.213.45.85) joined #pypy.06:57
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) joined #pypy.07:03
Nick change: anish_ -> anish_lunch07:13
hruske (~Gasper@188-230-156-183.dynamic.t-2.net) joined #pypy.07:37
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@office.fourdigits.nl) joined #pypy.07:38
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/75807:43
sunoano (~sa@mail.heartinternet.co.uk) joined #pypy.07:52
sunoano (~sa@mail.heartinternet.co.uk) left irc: Changing host07:52
sunoano (~sa@unaffiliated/sunoano) joined #pypy.07:52
interrupt (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) joined #pypy.07:54
antocuni (~antocuni@host117-71-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #pypy.07:55
bbot24Finished ??: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/29608:06
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/30208:06
PiotrSikora (~none@nginx/adept/piotrsikora) left irc: Excess Flood08:06
fzzzy (~donovan@76-198-130-19.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Quit: fzzzy08:06
fzzzy (~donovan@76-198-130-19.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net) joined #pypy.08:08
PiotrSikora (~none@nginx/adept/piotrsikora) joined #pypy.08:08
arigato (~arigo@89.204.139.36) joined #pypy.08:13
hruske (~Gasper@188-230-156-183.dynamic.t-2.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 268 seconds08:15
squiddy (~squiddy@g224196060.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #pypy.08:15
hruske (~Gasper@188-230-156-183.dynamic.t-2.net) joined #pypy.08:29
uche (~uche@70-90-116-204-BusName-summit.co.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving...08:30
CIA-5303arigo 07roundup * 10#970/llexternal callbacks: 08:34
CIA-53[new] rffi.llexternal() functions do not support callbacks other than the ones08:34
CIA-53explicitly listed as functionptr arguments. The problem is that t ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue97008:34
etrepum (~bob@75-101-96-144.dsl.static.sonic.net) joined #pypy.08:40
fijal (~fijal@197.169.46.231) joined #pypy.08:41
fijalhi08:43
arigatohi08:43
fijalarigato: good progress with counter decay & opmalloc08:45
fijalarigato: have you seen mattip tried hard to make dialog boxes disappear08:46
ernop (~ernie@114.250.131.107) joined #pypy.08:47
fzzzy (~donovan@76-198-130-19.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Quit: fzzzy08:48
YellowOnion (~huh@2406:e000:61d1:0:1572:1353:2179:283b) left irc: Quit: Leaving08:52
cfbolz_ (~cfbolz@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds08:54
Alex_Gaynorarigato, fijal: Does exception_cannot_occur() mean if you try to catch an exception it won't work?08:54
EnCuKou (~encukou@ip-94-113-220-25.net.upcbroadband.cz) joined #pypy.08:55
fijalit means annotator would assume this operation can't raise08:57
fijalI think if you try to catch it someone will get confused and tell you annotator & rpython disagree08:57
fijalor something like that08:57
Alex_Gaynorfijal: so if I do try: func_whcih_allegedly_cant_raise() except MemoryError: do_something() will do_something() ever be called?08:58
fijalprobably not08:58
fijaleither won't be called or annotation will explode08:58
Alex_Gaynorok so rbuiler.py is wrong08:58
Alex_Gaynorit claims stuff can't raise, but really it can raise MemoryError08:58
fijalso well, change to exception_is_here()08:59
Alex_Gaynorwhat if I just delete the line?08:59
fijalthen it's wrong09:02
fijalbecause you have to do either exception_is_here or exception_cannot_occur09:02
fijalwant to know why?09:02
Alex_Gaynoryes :)09:02
fijalbecause there are multiple ll operations09:03
fijaland if it can be any of those09:03
squiddy (~squiddy@g224196060.adsl.alicedsl.de) left irc: Quit: Leaving09:03
fijalso it's not completely irrelevant where you put it09:03
Alex_Gaynorok I'll write some tests then09:03
lucian (~lucian@93-97-174-114.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #pypy.09:04
G2P (~G2P@fw-asn1.ornis.com) joined #pypy.09:10
arigatoAlex_Gaynor: ah, btw09:12
Alex_Gaynorarigato: yes, I see the tests still aren't passing, I realize I only did one code path, but this rbuilder bug got in the way :)09:12
arigatoyes09:12
arigatoI was wondering if it makes sense to try hard to turn MemoryError to app-level OverflowError09:13
Alex_Gaynorin general?  or just in replace?09:13
arigatojust in replace09:13
Alex_GaynorI'm not sure it's always correct in replace, and we can be smarter in some cases (the replace("", x) case)09:13
arigatothe general point being that "except MemoryError" in RPython is kind of fragile anyway09:13
Alex_Gaynorso I'll just do the other case and be done I think09:14
Alex_Gaynorarigato: technically these MemoryErrors are all explicitly raised by rbuilder09:14
arigatoyes, I know09:14
Alex_Gaynorfor actual allocation errors it's ok to raise MemoryError09:14
Alex_Gaynor(correct evne)09:14
arigatohum09:15
arigatothen stringobject.py is wrong?09:15
arigatoit turns all MemoryErrors to OverflowError: "replace string too long"09:15
Alex_Gaynorno, pull the latest code09:15
arigatoah :-)09:15
arigatook09:16
arigatothen what is the problem with the stringbuilder?09:16
Alex_Gaynorwell, it's impossinle to catch a memoryerror from it, but I guess I don't really need that to fix this09:17
arigatook, I see09:17
arigatoas I said, the issue is more general09:17
arigato"try: x except MemoryError:" does not really work as expected in RPython09:17
arigatobasically you can't really rely on *where* the MemoryError is raised09:18
arigatowhat works is "try: functions_that_do_lot_of_stuff()  except MemoryError:"09:18
Alex_Gaynorright, that's why creating applevel MemoryError is in pyopcode09:19
arigatoyes, or maybe the other way around: we are fine with the pyopcode organization, so that's why we don't try hard to preserve the correct point of raising09:19
arigatoe.g. when JITted, the allocation can occur later09:20
fijalright09:20
fijalmess09:20
Alex_Gaynoryes (btw virtuals are a great way to screw up time.time()  based benchmarking :P)09:20
arigato:-)09:20
arigatoyes, it's a bit of a mess, but if we know it, then it's fine, I suppose09:21
arigatoI don't think it counts as "breaking semantics" of Python :-)09:21
Alex_Gaynorno, I agree it's fine09:21
fijalAlex_Gaynor: how's the new ffi going?09:23
Alex_Gaynorfijal: still writing documentation for it, my plan is to write *all* the docs, then tests, then code09:23
Alex_GaynorI'll release something by new years I hope09:24
kennethreitz (~kennethre@c-24-127-96-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/09:25
fijalcool09:25
fijalAlex_Gaynor: so I was thinking - how about we optimize copy/setslice with raw memcopy09:25
fijalbut not only when it's contiguous09:25
fijalbut also when it's contiguous-by-chunks09:25
Alex_Gaynoralso when there's contigious chunks09:25
Alex_Gaynorheh09:25
fijalyes :)09:26
fijalI claim it's "good enough"09:26
Alex_Gaynorsounds fine, so give me an "iterate-contigious-chunks" or so09:26
fijalyes, I'll do it09:26
Alex_Gaynorcool09:26
Alex_Gaynorfijal: btw sunspider benchmark is really awful09:26
fijalwhy?09:26
Alex_Gaynormost of the code is 100% dead09:27
lucianthey're all awful to optimise for when it comes to real web apps, with the possible exception of Dromaeo09:27
ltratt (~ltratt@87.114.245.164) joined #pypy.09:28
fijalAlex_Gaynor: they also don't use DOM09:28
lucianfijal: Dromaeo does, but it seems to include everything else too09:29
fijalAlex_Gaynor: I bet we can win on sunspider09:30
fijalby writing some simple dead-loop-removal09:30
fijalor so09:30
fijalit's relatively easy to do09:30
fijal(and super pointless)09:30
Alex_Gaynorof course09:30
Alex_Gaynorhow do you handle signal checking09:31
Alex_Gaynorand loop counter09:31
arigatoyay, a dead-loop-removal optimization :-)09:31
fijalyou precompute loop counter09:31
Alex_Gaynorright, I'm saying how do you perform that analysis :)09:31
fijaland signal checking can't occur if it's dead right?09:31
Alex_Gaynorright09:32
Alex_Gaynorbut how do you tell the JIT "this is dead, but only if everything else is dead first"09:32
fijalit's just a very theoretical optimization though09:35
fijalbecause it's complex and almost entirely pointless09:35
Alex_Gaynoryup :)09:35
antocuniAlex_Gaynor: may I have a look to your ffi thing? :-)09:36
Alex_Gaynorantocuni: I'll push it to a repo tomorrow, bed time for me :)09:36
antocuniok, thanks09:36
Action: arigato observes a mechanical spider in his courtyard: http://www.kleine-boymann.de/Internet/Buehne-SKT/100_1737.html09:36
fijal:]09:37
hruskenice gadget.09:37
fijal (~fijal@197.169.46.231) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer09:38
fijal (~fijal@197.175.143.3) joined #pypy.09:40
ltrattarigato: your hunch about bug 970 appears to be right - with --gcrootfinder=shadowstack there isn't a problem.09:41
ltrattshould i update the bug with more details?09:42
arigatoyes, it would be nice09:42
ltrattok, will do09:43
arigatothanks :-)09:45
CIA-5303ltratt 07roundup * 10#970/llexternal callbacks: 09:47
CIA-53[chatting] To flesh out Armin's issue, I've stumbled across this in the Converge VM when09:47
CIA-53using libXML2, when I have to pass pointers to functions ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue97009:47
fijal (~fijal@197.175.143.3) left irc: Quit: Leaving09:50
fijal (~fijal@197.175.143.3) joined #pypy.09:50
fijal (~fijal@197.175.143.3) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer09:53
ltrattdoes anyone have any ideas why pypy on Linux might be so much faster relative to python than is the case on OpenBSD? in other words, are there many linux-only optimisations in pypy?09:54
ltrattthe RPython Converge VM is 25% faster than the C VM on OpenBSD, but > 100% on Linux!09:54
ltrattpystone on linux is about 5.5x faster than python, but only 4x on openbsd09:54
tumbleweedwhich distribution and architecture are you looking at?09:55
ltratton linux: whatever's on tannit09:55
ltratton openbsd: running -current (i.e. "unstable") on amd64 (i.e. x86_64)09:55
xorAxAxltratt: yes, there are09:55
ltrattxorAxAx: aha...09:56
xorAxAxltratt: the memory allocation is faster on linux09:56
xorAxAxbecause of optimized /dev/zero copies09:56
ltratthow does pypy optimise that?09:57
tumbleweedI know on Ubuntu i386, cpython has about a 15% slowdown due to hardening09:57
xorAxAxltratt: the kernel optimizes those copies09:57
ltrattbut then that will be the same for python and pypy right?09:58
ltratti'm not comparing linux and openbsd directly. what i'm comparing is python vs. pypy on linux and python vs. pypy on openbsd.09:58
ltratti expected the performance improvement ratios to be roughly similar09:58
ltrattbut the ratios are much higher on linux09:58
xorAxAxltratt: no, cpython doesnt need/have this optimization09:59
ltrattaha, ok09:59
ltrattcan you explain in terms for an idiot (i.e. me) what "optimised /dev/zero copies" means?10:00
kenaan12hakanardo jit-multilabel 11169a84c26509 15/: hg merge default10:00
xorAxAxltratt: linux flips only bits in the pagetable when you copy n bytes from /dev/zero to your memory if n is divisible by 409610:01
xorAxAxthat makes it super fast10:01
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/179 [12hakanardo, jit-multilabel]10:02
ltrattit actually copies from /dev/zero rather than memset? i wouldn't have expected that!10:02
xorAxAxyes, it does10:03
xorAxAxso actually, your zeros are slower than linux ones10:03
ltratthehe10:03
ltrattmy guess is that should be replaced with memset on openbsd...10:03
xorAxAxask arigato for details, he introduced that optimization :)10:04
ltrattok, i'm trying disabling the /dev/zero read10:07
ltrattis that the only optimisation on linux that you know of? or does it have such a major effect that it's the only one needed? :)10:07
xorAxAxits the only optimization that i can think of that would affect an openbsd user10:09
ltrattok, thanks10:09
bivab (~david@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) joined #pypy.10:10
amaury_ (~amaury_@74.125.57.34) joined #pypy.10:16
arigato (~arigo@89.204.139.36) left irc: Quit: See you10:18
ramusara (~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp) joined #pypy.10:20
tilgovi (~randall@couchdb/developer/tilgovi) left irc: Remote host closed the connection10:23
__class__ (~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) joined #pypy.10:32
amaury_ (~amaury_@74.125.57.34) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds10:36
voidspace (~voidspace@python/psf/voidspace) joined #pypy.10:40
ltrattxorAxAx: hmm, reading llarena.py, it seems linux doesn't use the /dev/zero trick but uses madvise10:42
ltratthowever, no matter which of the 3 schemes i use there, performance on openbsd doesn't really budge10:42
ltrattthere might be 0.5-1% difference between them, but not enough to explain things10:43
interrupt (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) left irc: Read error: No route to host10:56
interrupt (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) joined #pypy.10:56
interrupt (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) left irc: Remote host closed the connection10:56
interrupt (~interrupt@175.197.245.105) joined #pypy.10:57
mfoord (~anonymous@python/psf/voidspace) joined #pypy.11:01
hruske (~Gasper@188-230-156-183.dynamic.t-2.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection11:03
arigato (~arigo@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) joined #pypy.11:04
azanella (~azanella@189.6.80.207) joined #pypy.11:05
arigatohakanardo: oups, sorry, I ran a lot of stuff on tannit for 1 minute11:07
hakanardook, I'm just checking for regressions before merging the branch11:09
arigatocool11:09
xorAxAx (~alexander@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds11:12
arigatoI'm tracking an occasional failure on 64-bit on trunk: a fatal RPython AssertionError in remap_frame_layout()11:20
Nick change: anish_lunch -> anish_11:26
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@office.fourdigits.nl) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer11:36
xorAxAx (~alexander@ampleforth.srv.alexanderweb.de) joined #pypy.11:36
xorAxAx (~alexander@ampleforth.srv.alexanderweb.de) left irc: Changing host11:36
xorAxAx (~alexander@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander) joined #pypy.11:36
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@office.fourdigits.nl) joined #pypy.11:37
squiddy (~squiddy@89.204.153.196) joined #pypy.11:37
getxsick (xsx@unaffiliated/getxsick) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer11:39
getxsick (xsx@unaffiliated/getxsick) joined #pypy.11:39
derdon (~derdon@pD9E1C00D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #pypy.11:41
xorAxAxltratt: ah11:44
getxsick_ (xsx@tramwaj.asi.pwr.wroc.pl) joined #pypy.11:45
getxsick (xsx@unaffiliated/getxsick) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer11:45
maxyz (~maxy@186.18.94.35) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds11:46
anish_ (anish@nat/redhat/x-toyivvikwpkrmeie) left irc: Ping timeout: 244 seconds11:48
asmeurer__ (~asmeurer@c-174-56-21-245.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) joined #pypy.11:52
voidspace (~voidspace@python/psf/voidspace) left irc: Quit: Uhm... gotta go12:01
Nick change: mfoord -> voidspace12:01
squiddy (~squiddy@89.204.153.196) left irc: Quit: Leaving12:04
ltrattxorAxAx: so i still have no explanation :)12:06
xorAxAxltratt: maybe madvise is faster on linux than on openbsd :)12:06
ltrattit probably is. linux is generally faster than openbsd, no-one would say otherwise.12:07
ltratti'm just surprised that pypy benefits disproportionately from that speed-up!12:07
gehho2 (~gehho2@ZJ040192.ppp.dion.ne.jp) left irc: Quit: Leaving...12:13
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) joined #pypy.12:20
witulski (~stupsi@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) joined #pypy.12:25
witulski (stupsi@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) left #pypy.12:25
asmeurer__ (~asmeurer@c-174-56-21-245.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer12:36
asmeurer__ (~asmeurer@c-174-56-21-245.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) joined #pypy.12:36
hakanardohmm, how am I supposed to start a becnhmarkrun on a branch to allow it to upload the results?12:37
hakanardomy athempts always fail like the corrent one12:38
EnCuKou (~encukou@ip-94-113-220-25.net.upcbroadband.cz) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds12:38
arigatoxorAxAx: fwiw, on Linux nowadays we are using madvise() instead of reading from /dev/zero12:39
xorAxAxarigato: yeah, as ltratt found out :)12:39
arigatoah :-)12:40
arigatosorry12:40
ltrattarigato: do you have any suggestions for why pypy performs so much better than python on linux, but not on openbsd?12:40
arigatoltratt: no, I'm looking...12:40
arigatoright now on openbsd it reads /dev/zero; did you try to use memset instead?12:41
ltrattyes i tried memset and madvise - no huge difference either way12:41
arigatook12:41
arigatoyes, what I expected12:41
Action: arigato grepping for "linux" through the sources12:41
ltratti wonder if e.g. the os x or freebsd people have noticed anything similar?12:42
arigatoI think it's known that it's slower on OS/X and on Windows, too12:42
arigatoa bit strange, but it may be indirectly related to the fact that we (=core developeres) only use Linux12:43
ltrattyes, i kind of expected linux to be a bit faster because i know you guys are linux users, but i'm still surprised at the difference12:43
ltrattunfortunately my openbsd servers don't have enough ram to compile full pypy :/12:43
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/179 [12hakanardo, jit-multilabel]12:44
maxyz (~maxy@186.18.94.35) joined #pypy.12:44
ltratti can probably get you an account on a machine elsewhere if you'd like to test things out12:44
arigatome, not really I'm afraid :-/12:44
Action: arigato did grep for "linux" and fails to find any other difference12:45
ltrattok, i understand - portability is not anyone's idea of fun :)12:45
arigatoyou can also try to run "PYPYLOG=gc:log pypy example_program.py"12:46
ltrattwill PYPYLOG only work on pypy (not e.g. on the Converge VM)?12:46
arigatoand then use pypy/tool/logparser.py draw-time output.png --width=300012:46
jnoller (~jnoller@vpn.nasuni.com) joined #pypy.12:46
arigatono, it should work everywhere12:46
ltrattok, cool12:46
arigatothis gives a log out of which you can get the total percent of time spent doing GC, and a bar graph showing when it occurs12:47
arigatoso the idea would be that you can compare the results of that on Linux and on FreeBSD12:48
ltrattok12:48
arigatoto know if FreeBSD spends much more time than Linux on the GC12:48
ltratthmm option "--width not supported"12:48
arigatoah, it's --mainwidth=300012:48
arigatoah, also you can just say "logparser.py print-summary" if you don't have PIL installed12:49
ltrattok, giving it a go now...12:49
arigato(and maybe it's also --output=output.png)12:49
arigato(haven't used this tool for a while :-)12:50
ltrattquick response: linux is spending less time in gc-minor (15% vs 26%)12:50
arigato:-/12:51
arigatoyes12:51
EnCuKou (~encukou@ip-94-113-220-25.net.upcbroadband.cz) joined #pypy.12:52
ltratti probably need to go into more depth to make sure those numbers are representative, but it's a start12:52
nshepperd (~asdfg@ppp118-209-196-83.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) joined #pypy.12:54
ltrattlinux also has a "gc-hardware" section that openbsd doesn't...12:54
lucian (~lucian@93-97-174-114.zone5.bethere.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds12:55
kenaan12hakanardo jit-multilabel 11707ec0f104cd 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/history.py: avoiding confusion from rare hash collisions12:55
kenaan12hakanardo jit-multilabel 1167480607b18f 15/: closing branch for merge12:55
kenaan12hakanardo default 11d5d0c616af63 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: Merging jit-multilabel. This is mostly a cleanup of the handling of labels in optimizeop. It does add suppot fo...12:55
kenaan12arigo default 11da6ef5856827 15/pypy/jit/backend/x86/test/test_jump.py: Improve the test to also have ConstFloatLocs.13:00
kenaan12arigo default 119c5561654700 15/: merge heads13:01
lcubo (~leonardo@190.94.99.125) joined #pypy.13:01
kenaan12arigo counter-decay 11bae684cd82fb 15/: close merged branch13:01
kenaan12arigo default 11fe3fd6bbfb02 15/pypy/jit/backend/x86/test/test_jump.py: merge heads13:01
gutworth (~benjamin@64-131-9-52.usfamily.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds13:01
ltrattarigato: i have to get ready to see some students, but i'll try and look at this over the coming days and see if i can dig anything useful up13:01
arigatothanks13:01
ltratt (~ltratt@87.114.245.164) left irc: Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.1213:04
witulski (~stupsi@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) joined #pypy.13:04
derdon (~derdon@pD9E1C00D.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection13:05
witulski (stupsi@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) left #pypy.13:06
uche (~uche@70-90-116-204-BusName-summit.co.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #pypy.13:07
aboudreault (~alanb@osgeo/member/aboudreault) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds13:07
Arfrever (~Arfrever@apache/committer/Arfrever) joined #pypy.13:08
gutworth (~benjamin@64-131-9-52.usfamily.net) joined #pypy.13:08
asmeurer__ (~asmeurer@c-174-56-21-245.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer13:14
asmeurer (~asmeurer@c-174-56-21-245.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) joined #pypy.13:14
EnCuKou (~encukou@ip-94-113-220-25.net.upcbroadband.cz) left irc: Remote host closed the connection13:15
mat^2 (~mathias@212.130.113.35) left irc: 13:18
aboudreault (~alanb@osgeo/member/aboudreault) joined #pypy.13:19
Rhy0lite (dje@nat/ibm/x-rnqtcbpgnbpmzysv) joined #pypy.13:26
bivab (~david@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds13:26
interrup_ (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) joined #pypy.13:33
interrupt (~interrupt@175.197.245.105) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds13:38
antocunihttp://dabeazcompiler2.eventbrite.com/13:43
antocuniwe should probably do the same :-)13:43
exarkunYes.13:44
hakanardoantocuni: nice :)13:44
antocunihonestly, I had no idea that you can ask for so much money for a collective course13:45
exarkunIt's all in the marketing.13:45
arigatouh, you have to pay 1000$ per person?13:45
antocuniseems so13:45
arigatoah, it's 4 days, too13:46
exarkunEverything thinks dabeaz is a super genius.13:46
antocuniarigato: can we put on the market a course given by you and ask for 10.000$? :-)13:46
arigatocome to the next sprint, 1000$ for newcomers :-)13:47
antocuniuhm, you are joking but maybe it's not such a bad idea. If we do e.g. a two days course (on whatever) before the sprint, we can ask for e.g. 500$ and with that money fund more pypy development13:48
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/30213:48
arigatoantocuni: worth being thought about, I suppose13:49
antocuniuhm, it seems that bbot2 doesn't think it's a great idea :-)13:49
arigato:-)13:49
Action: antocuni writes a mail to pypy-z13:49
arigato:-)13:50
arigatoah, finally, gdb crashes on the RPython assert13:50
hakanardowhere are the graphs rendered by --viewloops produced?13:50
arigatoit's x86/jump.py:5513:50
arigatohakanardo: probably /tmp/usession-x/graph.dot13:51
hakanardoI would like them to use get_printable_location...13:51
hakanardoarigato: I mean the code that is producing them13:51
arigatoah sorry13:51
arigatoit's in metainterp/graph_page.py13:51
hakanardothanx13:52
arigatoantocuni: in gdb, do you know how I can print some expression that depends on a value i, for i in range(54)?13:56
antocuniarigato: I'm not sure to understand the question13:56
antocunibut in any case it's very easy to write your own commands in python13:57
arigatoI want to get 54 prints: p complex_expression(0), p complex_expression(1), etc.13:57
antocuni(look at pypy/tool/gdb_pypy for examples)13:57
antocuniah, I don't think that the gdb scripting language has loops13:58
antocuniarigato: http://agateau.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/gdb-trick-the-poor-man-loop/13:59
antocunilook at the comments, there is an example of while loop13:59
arigatoright13:59
ronan (~ronan@host86-170-108-50.range86-170.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat13:59
arigatothank you :-)14:00
gtaylor (~gtaylor@108-196-160-120.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) joined #pypy.14:02
santagada (~leonardo@189.27.161.102.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) joined #pypy.14:10
kenaan12hakanardo default 11b1bccc7a772e 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: copy logic from logger to show the printable_location in the graphs, but only if get_printable_location was pro...14:24
kenaan12hakanardo default 11628d03374f2e 15/pypy/jit/backend/x86/test/test_jump.py: hg merge14:24
arigatoargh?14:30
arigatoI managed to extract the case from gdb, and write it as a tiny script that calls remap_frame_layout()14:30
arigatoit works fine14:30
arigatobut I try to translate the same code14:31
arigatothen I get the RPython AssertionError14:31
arigatoaaaaaah14:34
arigatoit's an integer overflow14:34
arigatoI have the value -9223372036854775809, that overflows the 64-bit ints after translation14:34
arigatobah, how can I possibly write a test for that?14:35
hakanardoarigato: assert isinstance(value, int)14:44
hakanardo:)14:44
arigatoyou have a point :-)14:44
arigatoI wrote it as a small translation test14:44
hakanardothat's probably even better :)14:46
kenaan12arigo default 11d70f132b92fa 15/pypy/jit/backend/x86/test/test_jump.py: A failing test, showing an issue that only occurs after translation.14:46
kenaan12arigo default 112261c6bb4a58 15/pypy/jit/backend/x86/jump.py: fix.14:46
kenaan12arigo default 11d73152d7b1ad 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: merge heads14:46
arigatoyes, I'm lucky that in this case it's easy enough to fake the assembler class14:46
arigatoit was a rare bug: to show up, you need (1) a loop in the mapping, e.g. stackloc %ebp+120 goes to stackloc %ebp+148 and vice-versa, and also (2) a source place that goes to 3 different places, including the same place as it was14:49
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/31214:54
interrup_ (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) left irc: Remote host closed the connection14:54
interrupt (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) joined #pypy.14:55
interrupt (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) left irc: Remote host closed the connection14:56
CIA-5303brownan 07roundup * 10#971/multiprocessing connection needs htonl/ntohl: 15:06
CIA-53[new] Multiprocessing connection objects are not compatible with CPython. To15:06
CIA-53reproduce:15:06
CIA-53run the example at15:06
CIA-53http://docs.python.org/library/m ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue97115:06
exarkunWhy does the multiprocessing module do host/network order translation for talking to other processes on the same host?15:09
exarkunOh, different hosts.15:10
etrepum (~bob@75-101-96-144.dsl.static.sonic.net) left irc: Quit: etrepum15:24
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@office.fourdigits.nl) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds15:28
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@office.fourdigits.nl) joined #pypy.15:30
dalke (~Adium@c-4f669193-74736162.cust.telenor.se) joined #pypy.15:31
h0h0 (~k@141.79-161-28.customer.lyse.net) joined #pypy.15:32
dalkeHi! I had to take xerxes (one of the Mac OS X buildbots) down for new memory. Was 4GB, is now 12. The pypy builds required 6GB of swap and thrashing for a couple of hours makes hard drives very unhappy.15:33
dalkeQuestion here is, how do I tell the buildbot to redo the build that I killed 30 minutes ago (after running for 4 hours).15:33
arigatodalke: ah, thanks for your concern15:36
dalkeAnd concern for my hardware. ;)15:36
arigato:-)15:37
arigatoyou can ignore the last build.  it was running for 13 hours, not 4 :-(15:37
arigatoit was a nightly build15:37
arigato"nightly"15:37
arigatothe next night should start one again15:37
dalkeOh?! I thought it had finished this morning. I didn't see it running at noon time.15:37
arigatohttp://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-64/builds/31215:38
dalkeAhh, but perhaps I was looking for 100% CPU and with the thrashing it was at low CPU...15:38
arigatoyes :-/15:38
Kaskuka (~John@osbk-d9bf275a.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #pypy.15:39
Guest53933 (~John@osbk-4db06e32.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds15:39
dalkeAhh, I see the "13 hrs" now.15:39
dalkeLooking forward to seeing how fast the new builds go.15:39
arigatoif you really want to start one now: http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-macosx-x86-6415:42
santagada (~leonardo@189.27.161.102.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds15:43
jperras (~jperras@li245-112.members.linode.com) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out15:50
nshepperdlooks like pypy is now speeding up my unmodified random silly programs by 9x15:51
jperras (~jperras@li245-112.members.linode.com) joined #pypy.15:51
nshepperdall that hard work is paying off :)15:51
ramusara (~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp) left irc: Quit: Leaving...15:51
nettok (~quassel@190.143.181.166) joined #pypy.15:52
arigato:-)15:53
Arnar (~arnarb@li187-148.members.linode.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds15:53
nshepperdthis is all pretty exciting15:54
nshepperdsay, what are the recommended RAM sizes for building nowadays?15:54
arigatoa-bit-more-than-2GB on 32-bit, a-bit-more-than-4GB on 64-bit15:55
Arnar (~arnarb@li187-148.members.linode.com) joined #pypy.15:55
exarkunPyPy uses _all_ the RAM15:55
arigato:-)15:55
gutworthall your ram is belong to us!15:56
nshepperdof course, how can you translate _all_ the things without all the ram?15:57
rguillebertthere's a tip on the download page to translate with less memory15:59
dalke1 (~Adium@c-4f669193-74736162.cust.telenor.se) joined #pypy.16:02
dalke (~Adium@c-4f669193-74736162.cust.telenor.se) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer16:02
mvt (~mvantelli@87.213.45.85) left irc: Quit: Leaving16:07
Ademan (~dan@adsl-71-141-224-79.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) left irc: Quit: leaving16:10
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@office.fourdigits.nl) left irc: Remote host closed the connection16:11
kennethreitz (~kennethre@c-24-127-96-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #pypy.16:12
lmoura (lmoura@gateway/indt/session) joined #pypy.16:26
h0h0 (~k@141.79-161-28.customer.lyse.net) left irc: Quit: Changing server16:30
Vorpal (~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster) joined #pypy.16:31
fijal (~fijal@196-210-199-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) joined #pypy.16:39
fzzzy (~donovan@76-198-130-19.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net) joined #pypy.16:40
fijalhi16:40
arigatorehi16:49
Action: fijal reading the logs16:50
Action: arigato off16:51
fijalyes, I'm afraid all measurments we did when cooperating with OS were along the lines of "we check 3 things and pick the fastest on linux"16:51
arigatoyes16:51
arigato (~arigo@fwstups.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de) left irc: Quit: See you16:51
G2P (~G2P@fw-asn1.ornis.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving.16:55
wichniew (~wichniew@211-dzi-8.acn.waw.pl) joined #pypy.17:11
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) left irc: Remote host closed the connection17:12
espes (~espes@123-243-221-248.tpgi.com.au) joined #pypy.17:12
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@sink.jaroel.nl) joined #pypy.17:13
nettok_ (~quassel@190.143.183.210) joined #pypy.17:21
gutworthhmm, can graphiz generate a svg?17:22
fijalI think so17:22
fijalwhy?17:22
gutworthit's nicer to use svg diagrams than pngs17:22
fijalyes17:23
nettok (~quassel@190.143.181.166) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds17:23
fijalnot nice svgs I fear17:23
gutworthwell I'm not going to try and read them :)17:24
fijalno I mean they look like crap17:26
gutworthah17:27
fijalbtu I might be wrong17:29
fijalPSes definitely do17:29
pjenvey~,17:30
fijalpjenvey: yes?17:35
gtaylor (~gtaylor@108-196-160-120.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Quit: Konversation terminated!17:38
pjenveyfijal - oops, just mistakenly typing ssh escape chars17:47
wichniew (~wichniew@211-dzi-8.acn.waw.pl) left irc: Quit: Leaving...17:48
Rhy0lite (dje@nat/ibm/x-rnqtcbpgnbpmzysv) left irc: Quit: Leaving17:54
Rhy0lite (dje@nat/ibm/x-rwvftegyfvewsnuq) joined #pypy.17:57
voidspace (~anonymous@python/psf/voidspace) left irc: Quit: voidspace18:01
tumbleweedhow can I skip a test based on pypy's object space options?18:06
tumbleweedwhen translated, I can see them in sys.pypy_translation_info, but that isn't present for p.py18:06
tumbleweedpy.py18:06
fijaltumbleweed: er, tests have very precise objspace18:07
fijalwhat are you trying to achieve?18:07
tumbleweedso, I have a quick and ugly PEP3147 patch18:07
tumbleweedbut I need to disable some of the legacy lone pyc tests when it doesn't have lonepycfiles enabled18:08
fijalI'm relatively skeptical about implementing that in the first place18:08
fijalbecause that means you share installed python files which you installed for cpython right?18:08
tumbleweedcan, but not intending to do that18:09
fijalso why implement this PEP in the first place?18:09
tumbleweedthe bigger reason I want it is to be able to share installed files between pypy versions18:09
fijalok18:09
tumbleweedso that we don't have to repeat debian's symlink farm mess for pypy18:09
fijalwell, one more question - I would be very skeptical about that if the PEP implementation goes into debian/ubuntu package but does not go upstream18:09
fijalso make it done right :)18:10
fijalok, speaking of which18:10
tumbleweeddon't worry, I'm not about to ship anything, and wouldn't ship patches that upstream doesn't agree with18:10
fijaldefault is lonepycfiles=False18:10
fijalso it'll be False in your tests18:10
tumbleweedyes, which is why the tests fail by default :P18:10
fijalunless you create an objspace which has it =True18:10
fijalwhich is done in setup_class18:10
tumbleweedthese are tests in the stdlib18:11
fijalby cls.space = gettestobjspace(config-opts)18:11
tumbleweedyeah, an unfortunate downside of doing this is that it's rather invasive in the stdlib18:11
fijaloh nice18:15
fijalwell18:15
fijal:/18:15
fijalhow is this invasive in stdlib?18:15
tumbleweedanyway, here's what I'm currently looking at. Please throw rocks at me if necessary :P http://paste.debian.net/149874/ http://paste.debian.net/149875/18:15
fijalPEP3147 won't work without lonepycfiles=True right?18:16
tumbleweedit will, that's actually something it partially endorses18:16
tumbleweedlonepycfiles=False breaks case 4 of it, though18:16
kkris (~kris@93-82-32-38.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #pypy.18:17
fijalso it'll or it won't?18:17
tumbleweedit works fine18:17
fijalso why do you need it =True for tests then?18:18
tumbleweedI don't18:18
fijalso why are you worried?18:18
tumbleweedI was assuming @skip ping a test was the right thing to do18:18
fijalno18:18
tumbleweedbut it looks like I should just delete them18:18
fijalyou mean there are tests for lonepycfiles?18:18
fijaland they were not in 2.7?18:18
tumbleweedyup18:19
fijalbut they got there18:19
fijalso just don't copy them over :)18:19
tumbleweed:)18:19
tumbleweedI assume for you to take these patches, I have to move all the stdlib changes into modified-2.7, inside appropriate if blocks18:20
fijalyes, definitely18:20
tumbleweedbut before I start doing things like that, I'd appreciate it if you gave it a once over (at least the core patch)18:21
tumbleweedit's also rather a break from cpython2.7 (it changes the meaning of __file__)18:22
amaury_ (~amaury_@46-127-23-192.dynamic.hispeed.ch) joined #pypy.18:22
exarkunSeems like they'd be good changes to stick in a 2.8 branch18:23
Action: tumbleweed crosses himself18:23
tumbleweedthere shall be no cpython2.818:23
exarkun2.8 branch of pypy I mean18:24
uche (~uche@70-90-116-204-BusName-summit.co.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving...18:24
fijaltumbleweed: look, this is the first time someone proposes something like this18:24
tumbleweedPEP3147 was partially intended to be backported to cpython2.7, we considered doing it in debian, but it was the last cpython2, so it wasn't wort hthe effort18:25
fijalthe question is - how much code that works on 2.7 breaks because of this?18:25
tumbleweedthat's a good question, and who knows :P18:26
fijalwell, think about it18:26
fijalI expect you want to answer 'none'18:26
exarkun"who knows" sounds like an insufficient justification for making such a change18:26
fijalotherwise we might be very skeptical18:26
exarkunAny code that thinks it can compute relative paths based on __file__ is broken, right?18:26
tumbleweedno, that should be safe18:26
fijaltumbleweed: I understand CPython is very loosely attached to backwards compatibility, but we're not18:26
tumbleweedmost of the time, when you look at __file__ you are after the directory, not the filename18:27
exarkuntumbleweed: What if you are after the filename?18:27
fijalexarkun: note that you can't safely assume there is a .py file next to your .pyc file anyway18:27
tumbleweedexarkun: even if you are doing a .replace('.pyc', '.py') you are safe :P18:27
exarkunHm.18:27
exarkunDoes PEP 3147 actually say it makes __file__ never point to a .pyc?18:28
kenaan12fijal numpy-faster-setslice 11b0190f46f44c 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: Implement fast slice setting using memcpy18:28
amaury_exarkun: yes18:28
fijalAlex_Gaynor: ^^^ feel like reviewing?18:28
amaury_http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3147/#file18:28
exarkunamaury_: It seems like that section is referring to a decision made somewhere else.18:28
tumbleweedhrm, whas I drunk or exhausted when I read the pep? "Nothing in this PEP would change the semantics of __file__" I think I read that as "Note that this..."18:29
exarkuntumbleweed: Heh.18:29
fijalexarkun: when did you use compileall module last time...18:29
pjenveyyea that change was pre 3147 iirc18:29
amaury_exarkun: right, I found CPython changeset 73e1bf179a0118:29
amaury_"Another patch for #1762972: __file__ points to the py file instead pyo/pyc file"18:30
exarkuntumbleweed: So perhaps a more interesting question is whether _your_ 3147 implementation for *PyPy* makes __file__ never point at a .pyc?18:30
pjenveychanged in py318:30
tumbleweedexarkun: it does18:30
exarkunokay.  that seems like it probably lessens the chance of breaking code.18:30
exarkunbut you should probably look around a bit :)18:30
pjenveyquite frankly I'm glad tumbleweed is doing pep3147 support, but it should go in the py3k branch =P18:31
getxsick_ (xsx@tramwaj.asi.pwr.wroc.pl) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer18:31
tumbleweedpjenvey: :)18:31
fijalpjenvey: noone cares about pypy py3k packaged in ubuntu18:31
exarkunpjenvey: You're lucky I already know that arguing about that would be a total waste of time.18:31
amaury_or make it a translation option?18:31
pjenvey=]18:31
jellfijal: i care18:31
fzzzy (~donovan@76-198-130-19.lightspeed.mtvwca.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Quit: fzzzy18:31
jellbut more in debian18:31
DasIch__ (~dasich@p4FFDD616.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #pypy.18:31
amaury_pypy already implements the SOABI to name extension modules18:32
amaury_this is also a py3k feature normally18:32
fijalamaury_: yes, but at worst this breaks/not breaks cpyext18:33
DasIch_ (~dasich@p4FFDF8A9.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out18:33
fijalso it's a second class18:33
fijaltumbleweed: if you can provide some reasonable evidence it does not break stuff, I would be +118:33
fijalbut also, the patch is light on tests18:33
tumbleweedfijal: yeah, I started by fixing tests broken elsewhere18:34
exarkuntumbleweed: Can you try Twisted's test suite with and without your patch?  It will exercise some __file__-dependent code.18:34
tumbleweed(which in retrospective was a bad idea)18:34
tumbleweedexarkun: sure18:34
fijalyes, making stuff pass it's own tests is usually a good start18:35
Nick change: DasIch__ -> DasIch18:37
exarkunUhhhh18:38
exarkunfijal: I started trying to reproduce the SSL issue18:38
exarkunAnd I noticed something else18:38
exarkunhttp://codepad.org/gRhG8OXo18:39
exarkunLook at the timestamps18:39
jellnice :]18:39
jelldifferent timezones? and mixed seconds?18:40
fijalnice18:40
fijalexarkun: I assume this is a sequential logging?18:40
fijalor so?18:40
exarkunyes18:41
fijalnice18:41
exarkunit's the same w/ or w/o the jit18:42
getxsick (xsx@unaffiliated/getxsick) joined #pypy.18:42
dalke (~Adium@c-4f669193-74736162.cust.telenor.se) joined #pypy.18:42
dalke (~Adium@c-4f669193-74736162.cust.telenor.se) left irc: Client Quit18:42
dalke1 (~Adium@c-4f669193-74736162.cust.telenor.se) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer18:42
fijalexarkun: how do I reproduce it?18:43
exarkunpypy twistd -n web --port tcp:port=9080 --path .18:45
fijaland hit it with apachebench?18:45
exarkunThat's what I was doing, but it looks like you don't need a high request load to trigger it18:46
exarkunIf you just use a browser you'll probably see the same18:46
fijalok18:47
fzzzy (~donovan@nat/mozilla/x-wjkwjjlritkmorau) joined #pypy.18:48
Dulakanyone know how to get vi keys in pypy?18:49
exarkunI just realized that's the logging system timestamp, not the web server timestamp, so it's probably not web related.18:49
exarkunhttp://codepad.org/boZ7Ligp18:50
Alex_Gaynorfijal: ping18:52
fijalAlex_Gaynor: pong18:52
fijalAlex_Gaynor: review18:53
fijalAlex_Gaynor: sudo review18:53
Alex_Gaynorfijal: :)18:53
Alex_Gaynorfijal: aren't most other iterators immutable?18:53
fijalyes, they totally are18:53
fijalwhy?18:53
Alex_Gaynorbecause AxisIterator isn't18:53
fijalyes, because it's used somewhere else18:54
Alex_GaynorI realize it's used differently, but it's weird to have the same API and be so different18:54
fijalwhere you have immutability required by the way it's used18:54
fijalit's a different API18:54
fijaljust names are the same :)18:54
Alex_Gaynorwell, probably someone will want to use axis iterator for other stuff, so maybe it should just use the same API?18:55
Alex_Gaynoralso, does fast_setslice really need the len == 1 special case?18:55
Alex_Gaynorand finally, virtualarrays should support this if they have been forced18:55
Alex_Gaynorotherwise LGTM18:56
exarkunI think PyPy is rounding wrong in the datetime module.18:56
fijalAlex_Gaynor: you don't need len == 1 special case18:57
Alex_Gaynorfijal: can we remove it?  I hate special cases and it won't make a difference on a big array18:57
exarkuneh, maybe.18:57
fijalbut I figured it would be cool to have for the case where you have a loop and copy a relatively small slice in a loop18:57
fijalit's a simple specialcase though18:57
fijalavoids some allocations18:57
Alex_Gaynorfijal: ok fine, make this share code with copy() though18:58
fijalthe support if it has been forced - yes, agreed18:58
amaury_exarkun: py3k also a pure Python implementation of datetime, could compare with it18:58
Alex_Gaynorfijal: copy should be, allocate new array, setslice18:58
fijalyes18:58
Alex_Gaynoramaury_: I compared it once, they're very similar IIRC18:58
exarkunI don't know how I feel about this: http://codepad.org/2iTghs6D18:58
fijalok, deal will do that18:58
amaury_yyes18:58
exarkunIt is inconsistent with CPython, anyway.  The C or Python datetime implementation.19:02
jyp_ (~interrupt@220.73.24.227) joined #pypy.19:07
stakkars_ (~tismer@89.204.153.192) joined #pypy.19:07
kenaan12fijal numpy-faster-setslice 112961d5daa1d1 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/interp_numarray.py: share code between copy and setslice19:16
fijalAlex_Gaynor: oh, your requirement for VirtualArray is nonsense19:18
Alex_Gaynorfijal: why?19:18
fijalsince you have to force the left hand side argument of setslice anyway19:18
fijalso if you force it you call setslice on the forced one19:18
Alex_Gaynoroh :)19:18
Alex_Gaynorduh19:18
fijalI did sharing19:19
fijalanything else?19:19
Alex_Gaynoryou moved around code, give me a minuet :)19:19
jellexarkun: true, and this looks like something wrong in pypy19:19
fijalyes, obviously :)19:19
fijalnot setslice has to be up to work on array as well19:20
Alex_Gaynorlooks ok I think19:20
fijalcool19:21
fijalshould I merge it?19:21
fijalwe should maybe set a threshold19:21
fijallike length > 1019:21
fijalor 10019:22
Alex_Gaynormeh, not worth it IMO19:22
CIA-5303jell 07roundup * 10#972/inconsistence with cpython (datetime?): 19:22
CIA-53[new] pypy:19:22
CIA-53Python 2.7.1 (7773f8fc4223, Nov 18 2011, 18:47:11)19:22
CIA-53[PyPy 1.7.0 with GCC 4.4.3] on linux219:22
CIA-53Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "li ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue97219:22
jellexarkun: ^^19:22
Alex_GaynorI'd just merge it19:22
kenaan12fijal default 11441db5bbe505 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: Merge numpy-faster-setslice, uses memcpy for setslice operations if possible19:22
Alex_Gaynorclose branch!19:22
Alex_Gaynorfijal: ^19:23
fijalsure19:23
kenaan12fijal numpy-faster-setslice 116b116d5dea60 15/: close merged branch19:25
fijal197 files updates19:25
fijalsince yesterday19:25
fijalpypy is crazy19:25
fijalAlex_Gaynor: cool, I'19:26
fijalll try to come up with the fastest algo now19:26
Alex_Gaynorok19:26
Niedar (~nnscript@ip68-231-248-182.hr.hr.cox.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds19:26
amaury_hum, with py.test it's not recommended to write   assert socket.recv(7) == 'abcdefg'19:26
fijalamaury_: no :)19:26
amaury_because when it fails, recv() is called again19:26
amaury_and is likely to block19:27
fijalyes19:27
amaury_better store in a temp variable19:27
exarkunOh, gugh.19:27
exarkunStupid me.19:27
nettok_ (~quassel@190.143.183.210) left irc: Remote host closed the connection19:27
exarkunI guess buffer support doesn't matter to Twisted SSL anyway.19:27
exarkunCrap.  Nevermind.  I don't understand what's going on.19:28
Alex_Gaynoramaury_: fixed in the latest py.test though19:28
Alex_Gaynoramaury_: since it uses AST rewriting instead of reevaluation19:28
amaury_good, let's use it!19:29
Niedar (~nnscript@ip68-231-248-182.hr.hr.cox.net) joined #pypy.19:30
fijalamaury_: no :/19:31
amaury_I have some issues with this in the py3k branch19:34
amaury_when py.test reprocess the failing line, it uses python219:35
hakanardowill a bridge always end with one iteration of it's target loop?19:35
amaury_and either crashes, or displays weird results e.g. with 'a' == b'a'19:35
azanella (~azanella@189.6.80.207) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds19:36
fijalhakanardo: bridge starts in the middle of iteration and goes until it ends19:37
fijalI think19:37
hakanardoright, what I am looking at is two nested loops19:38
hakanardothe inner loop is compiled19:38
antocuni (~antocuni@host117-71-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds19:39
hakanardoa bridge is traced from the exit of the inner loop containing one iteration of the outer followed by one iteration of the inner19:39
hakanardoso the bridge ends with an extra unnecessera full iteration of the inner loop19:40
fijalthat sounds bogus19:41
hakanardoyes, but what I dont under stand by looking at the code is why that does not happen for every bridge19:42
fijalisn't that the same distinction as in "to go to preamble or to go to the loop"?19:44
hakanardoit's similar indeed19:45
hakanardobut the loop is trace an extra time before optimizeopt gets to look at the trace19:46
hakanardoie he never gets the chanse to check the virtualstate and say hey we can jump to the loop here19:46
exarkunsys.path is annoying.19:47
Action: amaury_ just realized that big-endian storage actually ends with the smallest digits19:48
amaury_Why didn't they call it "big-startian" instead?19:48
jellspartian*19:48
jellthis is sparta!19:48
amaury_better than little-indian19:49
exarkunWhy is PyPy loading modules from /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages?19:49
jellamaury_: ;)19:49
amaury_jell: http://www.wikipeetia.org/Indianness19:51
jelli'm reading now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness19:51
jellso it's also funny19:52
jellless that indianness..19:52
tumbleweedexarkun: how on earth did you do that?19:52
jellpeetia is too hard to read at that level of wine...19:53
exarkuntumbleweed: I don't know.  Seems like a PyPy bug of some sort.19:54
exarkunThe problem goes away when I unset PYTHONPATH (which does not include /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages)19:55
amaury_exarkun: some .pth file along the PYTHONPATH?19:56
exarkunamaury_: How would I know19:56
jellif there would be a simple method to check this...19:57
fijalexarkun: it should not be in sys.path19:57
exarkunfijal: I agree, but it is19:58
fijalit's not on my machine...19:58
kenaan12amauryfa default 1160129de702dc 15/pypy/module/_multiprocessing/: Issue971: multiprocessing: Use network byte order to send the length of strings.19:58
CIA-5303afa 07roundup * 10#971/multiprocessing connection needs htonl/ntohl: [resolved] Fixed in 542ce3cc38d9, thanks for the report! * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue97119:58
exarkunWell, okay, I got lucky and the first pth file I looked at has /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages in it19:59
exarkunI don't think I've called setuptools a heap of garbage in here lately19:59
exarkunbut it is19:59
jellstrace it ;)20:00
fijal+120:00
jellsrsly, check which files are open in time of startup20:01
exarkunjell: I found it already20:01
amaury_CPython has a -v option for this20:01
exarkunamaury_: yea.  PyPy should have it too.20:01
jellexactly20:01
jellit's also incompatibility20:02
exarkunActually, it should have something better.  -v is the worst thing that could be useful.20:02
exarkunAnyway.  The frontend webserver for twistedmatrix.com is on PyPy now.  I don't know why it's not having ssl problems this time, but so far it isn't.20:03
fijalwuhu!20:03
fijalhttp://twistedmatrix.com/trac/20:03
jellexarkun: it's behind some fcgi server?20:03
fijal^^^ this is the frontend?20:03
exarkunfijal: You're going through the frontend to get that page, yes.  But trac is still on CPython, behind a reverse proxy.20:04
fijalah ok20:04
fijalwhat would it take to move trac?20:04
Alex_Gaynorexarkun: for speed, or for awesomeness?20:04
fijaldecent postgres support?20:04
exarkunAlex_Gaynor: Awesomeness20:04
exarkunfijal: That's definitely a requirement, yes.20:04
jellServer: TwistedWeb/11.1.020:04
jell:D20:04
fijaljell: dogfood20:05
jelli'm impressed ;)20:05
pjenveyyou can blame python itself for .pth files, that's not a setuptools specific thing20:05
fijalexarkun: have you tried psycopg-ct20:05
fijalor however it is called?20:05
exarkunfijal: But there are other requirements20:05
exarkunfijal: Probably the worst requirement is libsvn20:05
Action: fijal is listening20:05
fijaluh20:05
fijalindeed20:05
exarkunSome swig stuff probably20:05
fijalthere are pure-python svn libs20:05
fijalbut I'm sure they have a very incompatible API20:05
exarkunyea20:06
fijaland all of them not work in one way or the other20:06
exarkunpjenvey: I think this one is - `easy-install.pth´20:06
exarkunSo moving trac will be very hard, I think20:06
pjenveyyep20:07
exarkunThere is another service that requires psycopg and nothing else, I think20:07
exarkunI can try it on psycopg-ct I guess20:07
exarkunAnd the other major thing is mailman20:07
exarkunAnyone tried that on PyPy?20:07
Action: fijal has no idea20:07
exarkunhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/psycopg2ct ?20:07
jellright link20:08
exarkunLGPL >:(20:08
kenaan12hakanardo jit-improve-nested-loops 113c0b32210942 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/: Allow the bidge in cases like test_virtual.test_nested_loops to jump to the top of the innerlo...20:08
fijalThis module is only tested with python 2.6+ and PyPy 1.620:08
fijalseems like they claim it works20:08
exarkunAnd psycopg2ct requires setuptools :(20:11
fijalyeah, a lot of software does these days20:11
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/643 [12hakanardo, jit-improve-nested-loops]20:11
exarkunUrgh.  This will be difficult...20:12
fijalvirtualenv helps usually20:13
exarkunI haven't found that to be the case20:14
exarkunBut it doesn't handle postgresql-specific configuration issues, so I don't think it's applicable here.20:14
fijalok20:15
exarkunThe problem is the way postgresql is installed, I think.  nothing to do with pypy really.  but I don't know how to solve it.20:16
jelldo http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pg8000/1.08 solve that issues?20:17
jellas IC it has also py3.x version... http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pg8000-py3/1.0720:17
Trundle (~andy@89.204.138.112) joined #pypy.20:17
Trundle (~andy@89.204.138.112) left irc: Changing host20:17
Trundle (~andy@python/site-packages/trundle) joined #pypy.20:17
exarkunoh look, more setuptools dependencies20:17
jell:/20:18
fijalAlex_Gaynor: seems I made setslice slower20:18
exarkunthis crap is so obnoxious20:18
Alex_Gaynorfijal: o_O20:18
DasIch (~dasich@p4FFDD616.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Remote host closed the connection20:19
exarkunat least s/setuptools/distutils.core/ fixes it (but what the hell are these people thinking, using setuptools but not using any setuptools features?)20:19
exarkunjell: Well, it installs.  I wonder if it works.20:19
jelltry it, but... this could be "funny"20:19
fijalwtf?20:20
fijal???20:22
jellair it's somehow slower than psycopg, but much more pythonic (portable in jython/pypy/ironpython/cpython)20:22
Alex_Gaynorfijal: what exactly is slower now?20:22
fijalhttp://paste.pocoo.org/show/524193/20:23
fijalI-dont-understand20:24
jell:D20:25
Alex_Gaynorfijal: unittests for supports_fast_slicing() ?20:27
fijalwhy?20:27
exarkunpg8000 seems to work20:27
fijalno, supports is fine20:27
fijalbut the example here calls memcpy like a billion times20:27
fijalwhy?20:27
Alex_GaynorI have no idea20:27
Alex_Gaynorget in there with pdb20:28
Alex_Gaynoron py.py20:28
fijalit seems to work just fine20:28
Alex_Gaynorand yet, 1 billion memcpy calls20:29
jellexarkun: nice to read20:30
jellexarkun: it's much slower than psycopg2? in that test on cpython...?20:31
jellexarkun: did You probably checked this?20:31
fijalin pdb it's fine20:31
exarkunjell: I have no way to measure performance20:32
exarkunI'm still trying to switch the service over to it20:32
fijalAlex_Gaynor: ???20:32
fijalAlex_Gaynor: it seems it calls it 10x too many times20:32
Alex_Gaynorfijal: ?20:32
Alex_Gaynorprecisely 10x?20:32
fijalnot precisely20:33
fijalbut I don't know how much I trust valgrind20:33
Alex_Gaynortry with ltrace?20:33
Alex_Gaynoralthough other stuff uses memcpy too20:33
fijalyes20:36
fijalbut not in the same loop20:36
fijalI'm measuring differences between loop invocations20:36
fijaloh bymmer20:41
fijalit's memcopy called from ll_extend20:41
fijalfrom BaseArray.create_slice20:41
stakkars_ (~tismer@89.204.153.192) left irc: Quit: schnarch20:42
Alex_Gaynorfijal: is it causing the slowdown, or just messing up looking at the numbers?20:43
Alex_Gaynorit's not like we didn't create slices before20:44
fijaljust messing up with numbers20:44
fijalon top of that jitviewer stopped working20:44
brownan (~brownan@cpe-065-190-056-090.nc.res.rr.com) joined #pypy.20:48
brownanhi everyone. amaury_: thanks for fixing the multiprocessing issue earlier. However, I'm getting an error when I translate it20:50
amaury_huh, sorry20:50
amaury_which error?20:51
brownanone sec...20:51
brownanhttps://gist.github.com/150776220:51
amaury_let me fix it20:52
Alex_Gaynorfijal: ATM for me we're about tied on this with CPython20:53
brownanthanks20:53
abki_ (~Amirouche@hyper.pilotsystems.net) left irc: Quit: leaving20:55
gtaylor (~gtaylor@108-196-160-120.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) joined #pypy.20:57
jnoller (~jnoller@vpn.nasuni.com) left irc: 21:01
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/643 [12hakanardo, jit-improve-nested-loops]21:04
aboudreault (~alanb@osgeo/member/aboudreault) left irc: Quit: Leaving21:05
`fox` (~fox@95.237.108.196) joined #pypy.21:06
kenaan12amauryfa default 11d94baec282bc 15/pypy/module/_multiprocessing/interp_connection.py: Attempt to fix translation21:15
amaury_brownan: probably fixed21:15
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds21:15
brownanamaury_: cool thanks. I'll give it a shot21:15
kkris (~kris@93-82-32-38.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Quit: Leaving.21:18
DasIch (~dasich@p4FFDD616.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #pypy.21:22
dmalcolm (~david@c-24-61-12-82.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #pypy.21:25
maxyz (~maxy@186.18.94.35) left irc: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.221:26
exarkunI guess... I guess pg8000 on PyPy is faster than psycopg2 on CPython?  For this application, at least.  On my highly unscientific benchmark.21:34
lcubo (~leonardo@190.94.99.125) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds21:35
exarkunSomething like 1.2s to handle a request on CPython vs 0.4s to handle the same request on PyPy.21:35
exarkunI don't know where the performance difference actually is.  It's not a _very_ database heavy application.21:36
exarkunIt could well be that pg8000 is slower than psycopg2, but PyPy is faster for all the rest of the processing.21:36
derdon (~derdon@p5DE8B77E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #pypy.21:37
amaury_exarkun: does the cpyext buffer interface work, btw?21:44
exarkunamaury_: It's a mystery.21:45
amaury_ah21:45
exarkunI completely failed to reproduce the issue.21:45
exarkunI _think_ maybe I was accidentally using a very old version of either Twisted or pyOpenSSL or both when I initially encountered it21:45
exarkunBut I have no way of knowing21:45
exarkunI will try to do some extra testing, though, just to verify that it does work, even though it seems I don't need it in practice right now.21:46
`fox` (~fox@95.237.108.196) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds21:51
Alex_Gaynorgutworth: ping21:55
gutworthpong for a few minutes21:58
Alex_Gaynorgutworth: I'm putting together a quick blogpost on pypy at pycon, can I have the teaser paragraph for you talk?21:59
Alex_Gaynor(technically I have access to it since I'm on the pycon-pc, can I use it?)21:59
gutworth (~benjamin@64-131-9-52.usfamily.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 248 seconds22:05
gutworth (~benjamin@64-131-9-52.usfamily.net) joined #pypy.22:05
Rhy0lite (dje@nat/ibm/x-rwvftegyfvewsnuq) left irc: Quit: Leaving22:16
cco3 (conleyo@nat/google/x-evoqkaxsbacvtqkr) joined #pypy.22:16
cco3Can I run pypy without translation or a C compiler?22:16
amaury_well, you can download a precompiled pypy22:17
amaury_you can run an untranslated pypy (sloow but works)22:17
amaury_but it needs a C compiler for some "configure" tasks22:18
cco3Hmm...that's really too bad22:19
amaury_are you on windows?22:19
cco3no22:19
amaury_why would you run an untranslated pypy?22:20
cco3Using the sandboxing feature22:20
cco3A larger (python) program that occassionally runs untrusted code22:21
cco3I think it'd be neat if such a thing didn't have to make system calls22:21
cco3to the C compiler or a translated pypy22:22
amaury_But the pypy-c-sandbox program must be compiled22:24
cco3I was afraid of that....22:25
amaury_if you try to run untrusted Python code on top of a normal CPython22:25
amaury_even with a complex library22:25
amaury_it won't be secure22:26
cco3Is that true?  Cpython would just be running pypy, and pypy should make sure not to do anything that would constitute a call to the OS, right?22:26
amaury_pypy-c-sandbox is safe because it does not contain any reference to "dangerous" C functions22:27
cco3ah, I see...so it's a modification to the translator...pypy itself is agnostic to the whole sandboxing thing22:28
cco3is that a correct understanding?22:28
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/18022:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-macosx-x86-32/builds/75222:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/98822:30
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64-2/builds/822:30
amaury_yes, C function calls are replaced by remote calls to the controller22:30
amaury_libc function calls22:30
cco3ok thanks...and why does pypy (without sandboxing) need a C compiler for the configuring tasks?22:33
amaury_when you start bin/py.py (an interpreted pypy)22:35
amaury_it may want to access low level C functions22:36
amaury_for this, we use ctypes at some level22:36
cco3ah, ok22:36
amaury_but pypy needs to know a few things like the value of some defines, various sizeof etc.22:37
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) joined #pypy.22:41
dmalcolm (~david@c-24-61-12-82.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving22:47
antocuni (~antocuni@host117-71-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #pypy.22:48
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) left irc: Ping timeout: 255 seconds22:50
kenaan12amauryfa py3k 11221a0077614d 15/pypy/module/imp/: Implement imp.source_from_cache() Kind of... we still use the old .py/pyc scheme.22:51
kenaan12amauryfa py3k 11dce4b22308da 15/: Fix almost all tests in module/_sre22:51
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/1484 [12amaury, py3k]22:51
JaRoel|4d (~jaroel|4d@sink.jaroel.nl) left irc: Remote host closed the connection23:08
kenaan12amauryfa py3k 11ceb5f49d0eeb 15/pypy/objspace/std/: set.__repr__ uses the new set literal syntax: {1, 2, 3}23:09
brownanamaury_: It works! I just finished a translation and verified that multiprocessing communication between cpython and pypy works23:12
brownanthank you!23:12
amaury_ (~amaury_@46-127-23-192.dynamic.hispeed.ch) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out23:14
zainhot damn. pypy translated successfully on my macbook air + osx23:16
zainpretty awesome, guys23:16
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) joined #pypy.23:16
Alex_Gaynorzain: we try :)23:17
whitelynx (~whitelynx@63.241.75.144) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat23:17
voidspace (~voidspace@python/psf/voidspace) joined #pypy.23:18
gtaylor (~gtaylor@108-196-160-120.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Quit: Konversation terminated!23:19
Circlefusion (~cf@74-138-199-109.dhcp.insightbb.com) left irc: Read error: Operation timed out23:28
nettok (~quassel@200.119.172.118) joined #pypy.23:34
nedbat (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) left irc: Disconnected by services23:41
nedbat_ (~nedbat@python/psf/nedbat) joined #pypy.23:41
Nick change: nedbat_ -> nedbat23:56
--- Thu Dec 22 201100:00

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.9.2 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!