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| Nisstyre | So, any idea why PyPy would run slower on this than CPython? http://pastie.org/3135099 | 02:13 |
| Nisstyre | it spits out everything at once, whereas CPython seems to do it incrementally | 02:13 |
| Nisstyre | double_squares.txt is just a textfile of large numbers | 02:14 |
| Nisstyre | separated by newlines | 02:14 |
| _habnabit | try adding sys.stdout.flush() after the print | 02:16 |
| Nisstyre | okay | 02:16 |
| Nisstyre | that doesn't change anything afaict | 02:17 |
| Nisstyre | the time is still the same | 02:17 |
| Nisstyre | I'm using the "time" command to time it | 02:17 |
| Nisstyre | I'm just curious why it would be slower | 02:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | How many lines are there | 02:19 |
| Nisstyre | about 20 | 02:19 |
| Nisstyre | I can paste the file for you | 02:19 |
| mikefc2 | and how much slower do you mean by "runs slower" | 02:19 |
| Nisstyre | oh, not much slower, only like a millisecond :) | 02:19 |
| mikefc2 | Nisstyre: your code probably doesn't run for long enough for the JIT to kick in | 02:20 |
| Nisstyre | ah okay | 02:20 |
| mikefc2 | make a file with 5000 inputs and try again :) | 02:20 |
| Nisstyre | I'll try it with a larger trial | 02:20 |
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| Action: mikefc2 doesn't mean to steal anyone's thunder. "your code doesn't run for long enough" seems to be the common reason for pypy being slower than cpython. | 02:21 | |
| Action: mikefc2 thought he'd be the only one awake at this hour. | 02:22 | |
| Alex_Gaynor | Are these numbers super large (longs)? | 02:23 |
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| mikefc2 | Nisstyre: can you pastie the original file? | 02:24 |
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| Nisstyre | mikefc2: yes, one sec | 02:38 |
| Nisstyre | http://pastie.org/3135183 | 02:39 |
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| mikefc2 | probably a bit of a cheat, but if you just stick it all in a loop doing it 100 times, cpython takes 15 seconds, and pypy takes 2. | 02:46 |
| Nisstyre | I copy and pasted the file contents until it was at about 2000 lines, and PyPy was about 7 seconds, and CPython was about 26 | 02:46 |
| Nisstyre | so there you go | 02:46 |
| Nisstyre | I guess it does run faster if it runs longer | 02:47 |
| mikefc2 | Nisstyre: the actually JITting of the code happens after a section of code has been seen running >1000 times (roughly) | 02:47 |
| Nisstyre | hmm, that's a pretty awesome optimization | 02:47 |
| mikefc2 | once it's been seen enough, pypy does it's fancy JIT thing, so then it's faster after that. | 02:47 |
| mikefc2 | Nisstyre: yup. pypy is amazing :) | 02:48 |
| bbot2 | 3Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/195 | 02:55 |
| Action: mikefc2 hopes he hasn't characterized pypy jitting incorrectly. | 03:00 | |
| Action: mikefc2 looks for a faq | 03:00 | |
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| lahwran | is there a way to tell pypy to jit *everything* on startup? | 03:38 |
| mikefc2 | there is a threshold argument you can pass to pypy. | 03:39 |
| lahwran | so set it to 0 and everything will be JITed immediately? | 03:39 |
| mikefc2 | probably won't work that way :) | 03:39 |
| lahwran | :< | 03:39 |
| mikefc2 | but you could try | 03:39 |
| mikefc2 | do a pypy --help and have a look at the options | 03:39 |
| MostAwesomeDude | You probably don't want everything immediately JIT'd anyway. | 03:40 |
| mikefc2 | i'm sure that if you set it low, it'll spend too much time jitting useless stuff - thus taking longer. | 03:40 |
| lahwran | just means longer startup, does it not? | 03:40 |
| Action: mikefc2 talks through his hat | 03:41 | |
| MostAwesomeDude | You want PyPy to run through each function a couple dozen times, at least, to get an idea of which types are being passed in. | 03:41 |
| lahwran | ah | 03:41 |
| MostAwesomeDude | Then it's got a better chance of inlining types which will actually be used. | 03:41 |
| mikefc2 | lahwran: i say to give it a go and tell us how it works for you :) | 03:41 |
| lahwran | that's a genius idea | 03:42 |
| lahwran | are there any speed examples of long running, processor-intensive things? | 03:42 |
| lahwran | the kind of stuff that would be called enough to trigger all the jitting | 03:42 |
| mikefc2 | lahwran: the benchmarks? | 03:42 |
| mikefc2 | speed.pypy.org | 03:42 |
| lahwran | from what I understand, a lot of the stuff on there is very short-running :/ | 03:42 |
| mikefc2 | bump up the loop/array/image sizes | 03:43 |
| lahwran | in which? | 03:43 |
| mikefc2 | e.g. in the raytracer you could just make it trace a huge image instead of the default size. | 03:43 |
| lahwran | I'm unfamiliar with the running of these benchmarks myself, where can i find them? | 03:44 |
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| mikefc2 | *shrug* | 03:47 |
| mikefc2 | try this: https://bugs.pypy.org/file481/smallpt.py | 03:47 |
| mikefc2 | a path tracer | 03:48 |
| mikefc2 | pypy smallpt.py 200 200 4 | 03:50 |
| Action: mikefc2 gets back to work | 03:50 | |
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| mikefc2 | you can see when the JIT kicks in. | 03:52 |
| JaredW | hi. so what's the progress of zeromq on pypy | 03:55 |
| mikefc2 | JaredW: isn't there a lot of cython code in zeromq? | 03:56 |
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| mikefc2 | JaredW: isn't there a lot of cython code in the python bindings to zeromq? | 03:57 |
| JaredW | there was an early pypy ctypes version of it I remember | 03:58 |
| mikefc2 | JaredW: you're right: https://github.com/svpcom/pyzmq-ctypes . Give it a try and tell us how it goes :) | 04:00 |
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| JaredW | I got ImportError: No module named py | 04:48 |
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| mattip | fijal: ping | 08:17 |
| mattip | I've made progress on numpy-axisops | 08:17 |
| mattip | I turned it inside-out and got much better zen | 08:18 |
| fijal | pong | 08:18 |
| mattip | but | 08:18 |
| fijal | zen is good | 08:18 |
| mattip | _create_iter() drags this chunklist around that is only used really in VirtualSliceSignature | 08:19 |
| mattip | I need another argument to _create_iter(): dim | 08:19 |
| mattip | for ReduceSignature | 08:19 |
| fijal | dim is passed at each next right? | 08:20 |
| mattip | which is the dim to iterate over (column, row, ...) | 08:20 |
| fijal | oh that one | 08:20 |
| fijal | sounds fair | 08:20 |
| mattip | That's a possibility I didn't think of: passing it in at each next. | 08:20 |
| mattip | It might be expensive in my implementation | 08:21 |
| mattip | I would prefer to pass it to _create_iter | 08:21 |
| mattip | like chunklist | 08:21 |
| fijal | I can't really see why one would be better over other without code :) | 08:22 |
| fijal | so please do whatever is best for you | 08:22 |
| mattip | What is the cost of passing all the xtra args to create_frame, _create_iter as kwargs not as a list of args? | 08:22 |
| mattip | (all the previous chatter was backround to that question) | 08:22 |
| mattip | I guess I'll just do whatever is best for me and then you can look at it. | 08:23 |
| fijal | none | 08:23 |
| mattip | :) | 08:23 |
| fijal | if you always name then it's always fine | 08:24 |
| fijal | if you try playing with *args and keyword args or something, it'll stop compiling | 08:24 |
| fijal | note that all the calls in the loops are inlined | 08:25 |
| fijal | if you look at test_zjit, this is the list of *all* operations performend in the inside loop | 08:26 |
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| mattip | ahh. OK. That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks. | 08:26 |
| fijal | did you run test_Zjit with --viewloops? | 08:28 |
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| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/667 [12fijal, better-jit-hooks] | 08:30 |
| mattip | yes, but I was overwhelmed. Can you help me understand it a bit? Here's what I have so far: | 08:31 |
| fijal | I can explain a bit | 08:31 |
| mattip | test_sum in zjit runs the jitdriver | 08:31 |
| fijal | jitdriver is just a marker | 08:32 |
| mattip | and check_simple_loop reports everything inside the marker? | 08:32 |
| fijal | you run code for a while | 08:32 |
| fijal | sec | 08:33 |
| fijal | sok | 08:35 |
| fijal | so you run code until it becomes hot, typically after 1619 iterations | 08:35 |
| fijal | then you reach the jit_merge_point and you start tracing | 08:35 |
| fijal | tracing = recording operations executed by the interpreter | 08:35 |
| fijal | after you reach the same jit_merge_point with the same greens (that's one loop iteration in our case) you close the loop | 08:36 |
| fijal | you optimize the recorded operations (and this is what you see in viewloops) | 08:36 |
| fijal | and in the compiled case (not test_zjit, but full pypy) you will compile that to efficient assembler | 08:37 |
| fijal | with me so far? | 08:37 |
| mattip | yes | 08:37 |
| fijal | well, this is pretty much it :) | 08:37 |
| fijal | the trick is that optimization copies loop twice | 08:37 |
| fijal | moving loop-invariant code before the loop | 08:37 |
| mattip | and check_simple_loop reports the resulting optimized code? | 08:37 |
| fijal | so you see two iterations of the loop, btu actually only the latter will be executed | 08:38 |
| fijal | yes, but only the operations | 08:38 |
| fijal | so int_add is a processor level int addition | 08:38 |
| fijal | and ther are no calls for example | 08:38 |
| fijal | and no allocations | 08:38 |
| mattip | right. That's a "good" loop: small, no calls, no allocations. | 08:38 |
| fijal | now I think you can see why having tight single loop (And not two) is a bit crucial | 08:39 |
| mattip | Yes. thanks. | 08:40 |
| mattip | That scary basement is not so bad after all. | 08:41 |
| fijal | :) | 08:41 |
| fijal | I would strongly suggest you read our jit docs | 08:41 |
| fijal | it would shed some light | 08:41 |
| fijal | http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/jit/index.html | 08:42 |
| fijal | it's not all up-to-date and no really low level enough | 08:42 |
| fijal | but should give some info | 08:42 |
| mattip | I really tried, but that was before I saw the light. I'll try again. | 08:42 |
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| mattip | At the beginning I needed to learn rpython, pep8, test writing, translation, the whole pypy ecosystem. | 08:47 |
| mattip | It took quite a while, but now I am almost ready for the next level. | 08:48 |
| fijal | spend your skill points wisely :) | 08:52 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/667 [12fijal, better-jit-hooks] | 08:54 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11b7cde06c0fc6 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/: work in progress on improving the JITted ops representation | 08:57 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 1145d0a0377adb 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: bah, fix translation | 08:57 |
| fijal | hm | 08:58 |
| fijal | can I make a mixed-module level constant thats' a dict? | 08:58 |
| fijal | I guess in setup_after_space_initialization | 08:58 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11967f730f60fb 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/: expose a bit more and improve tests | 09:06 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 1137c20c819ee1 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: an attempt to fix translation (likely not working) | 09:09 |
| fijal | bah :/ | 09:10 |
| fijal | mattip: note that it took quite a few iterations to get iterators cooperating with optimizer well enough so there are no allocations or extra field reads or anything like that | 09:12 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: ping? | 09:17 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 110002a1e634e4 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: hopefully (ugly) fix translation. | 09:26 |
| fijal | antocuni: | 09:27 |
| fijal | feel like helping with annotation? | 09:27 |
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| antocuni | fijal: it's a holyday here :-) | 09:31 |
| fijal | heh | 09:32 |
| fijal | why do you expect me to know all the italian holidays :) | 09:32 |
| fijal | anyway, also an awesome day to help ;-) | 09:32 |
| fijal | I find myself writing this never-run-code | 09:33 |
| fijal | that just makes types happier :/ | 09:33 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 114e8f6daccede 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: another attempt | 09:33 |
| Action: fijal is inclined do just do 'push tannit' | 09:36 | |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11d8f5fca2919d 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: yet another go | 09:36 |
| fijal | bb is slow :/ | 09:36 |
| antocuni | fijal: I'll be off all the day, so no hacking today | 09:36 |
| antocuni | what are you trying to do btw? Expose optimizations at app level? | 09:36 |
| fijal | so far just exposing resops | 09:36 |
| fijal | do you want me to describe the problem or not really? | 09:37 |
| antocuni | sure | 09:37 |
| fijal | antocuni: I'm also fixing so on_compile is called on all jitdrivers | 09:37 |
| antocuni | just don't expect me to help today :-) | 09:37 |
| fijal | (this is done) | 09:37 |
| antocuni | I'll be off on ~30 minutes | 09:37 |
| fijal | so the problem is annotation time | 09:37 |
| fijal | I annotate pypyjit module way before the JIT | 09:37 |
| antocuni | so the annotator doesn't really know the types of most things? | 09:38 |
| fijal | it never sees the creation of objects in the first place | 09:38 |
| fijal | it has no idea what JitDriver is for example | 09:38 |
| fijal | etc. | 09:38 |
| antocuni | pff | 09:38 |
| antocuni | annoying | 09:38 |
| fijal | yes | 09:38 |
| antocuni | you could use a hack similar to what it's done in backend/llgraph/llimpl | 09:39 |
| fijal | I want a set of functions that have precise annotation and say "we'll fill in details later" | 09:39 |
| antocuni | in which you can statically declare the signature of functions | 09:39 |
| fijal | I guess | 09:40 |
| fijal | would that even work? | 09:41 |
| antocuni | not sure | 09:41 |
| fijal | because now we have rpython/rpython bridge really | 09:41 |
| antocuni | I think there is no support in the annotator for what you want to do | 09:41 |
| fijal | let's hope armin shows up ;-) | 09:41 |
| antocuni | so you have to write it first | 09:41 |
| fijal | well | 09:41 |
| fijal | I would not need to change annotator | 09:42 |
| fijal | since functions get flown later anyway | 09:42 |
| fijal | it's sort of delayed function | 09:42 |
| fijal | I'll wait for armin | 09:43 |
| antocuni | fijal: btw, if we manage to have support for this | 09:43 |
| antocuni | then it'll be very helpful also for separate compilation | 09:43 |
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| fijal | right | 09:47 |
| fijal | except not quite | 09:47 |
| fijal | I mean you need quite a bit more for separate comp | 09:47 |
| fijal | because I only need to join them at rtyped graph layer | 09:47 |
| fijal | not compiled C layer | 09:48 |
| antocuni | sure | 09:49 |
| antocuni | I just said that it'll be helpful, not the whole solution :-) | 09:49 |
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| fijal | yeah, I guess I'll need that in the long run anyway | 09:53 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 116895bfac2d92 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: be slightly more abstract | 09:53 |
| fijal | antocuni: I think we can kill that RPython definition changes btw :) | 09:53 |
| antocuni | doesn't it? | 09:54 |
| fijal | it rarely does | 09:54 |
| antocuni | e.g. we recently add support for generators | 09:54 |
| fijal | sure, you can add things | 09:54 |
| fijal | but it almost never changes in a backward incompatible way | 09:54 |
| antocuni | true | 09:55 |
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| mattip | haha. The joke is on me. I stole fijal's AxisIterator that he made for _fastcopy | 09:58 |
| fijal | mattip: ? | 09:58 |
| mattip | turned it inside out so that it now iters over all array items | 09:58 |
| fijal | cool | 09:58 |
| fijal | mattip: I'll try to write some numpy docs maybe today | 09:58 |
| mattip | with a flag when it finishes the desired axis | 09:59 |
| fijal | I have a fairly exhautive list of items to do | 09:59 |
| mattip | and now it broke _fastcopy. | 09:59 |
| mattip | (which assumes AxisIterator jumps over the axis) | 09:59 |
| fijal | mattip: can you just provide a different iterator for fastcopy? | 09:59 |
| fijal | so you don't have to worry too much | 09:59 |
| fijal | a bit of code duplication is fine | 09:59 |
| fijal | antocuni: is it still true you can't modify a global list? | 10:00 |
| fijal | I think it's not | 10:00 |
| mattip | yes of course, I just thought it was funny. | 10:00 |
| antocuni | fijal: I think it has never been true | 10:00 |
| antocuni | you cannot *rebind* it | 10:00 |
| fijal | yes, of course | 10:01 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 111d703b15bd80 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: bah, can be none | 10:07 |
| fijal | antocuni: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/530842/ | 10:09 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11307dbbf5067d 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: wtf | 10:31 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 117de1c76c02c4 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: grrrr; | 10:50 |
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| fijal | FUCK | 11:06 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 113826773898b1 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: make sure we can modify the list | 11:08 |
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| GoGi | you called your replacement of numpy numpypy | 11:16 |
| GoGi | does this mean that one can also import the original numpy somehow? | 11:16 |
| fijal | GoGi: no | 11:17 |
| fijal | we called it because numpy people complained :/ | 11:17 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 1118807d528b49 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: another hack... | 11:22 |
| kenaan | 12mattip numpypy-axisops 1144fd891a3a1c 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: turn AxisIterator inside out | 11:23 |
| kenaan | 12mattip numpypy-axisops 11188fd8e68904 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/interp_numarray.py: merge | 11:24 |
| kenaan | 12mattip numpypy-axisops 115e2f7e1b6648 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: cleanup | 11:24 |
| mattip | fijal: I'm getting a "AttributeError getting at the binding!" error in test_zjit | 11:24 |
| fijal | nice | 11:24 |
| fijal | but also some other error no? | 11:24 |
| mattip | but test_ztranslation passes | 11:24 |
| mattip | as do all the normal tests | 11:25 |
| fijal | I'm relatively sick of translation errors :/ | 11:25 |
| fijal | but ok | 11:27 |
| mattip | hmm. so just give me a hint | 11:27 |
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| fijal | E AnnotatorError': annotation of <pypy.annotation.listdef.ListItem object at 0x5058850> degenerated to SomeObject() | 11:28 |
| fijal | this is the actual error | 11:28 |
| fijal | and it means AxisIterator and other iterators are not sharing base class | 11:29 |
| fijal | if you have a pdb you can look that | 11:29 |
| mattip | OK. I can deal with that. | 11:29 |
| fijal | it's bad that test_ztranslation passes :/ | 11:29 |
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| mattip | thanks. | 11:35 |
| kenaan | 12mattip numpypy-axisops 1183403a06fc8c 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/interp_iter.py: translation error | 11:35 |
| mattip | now I'll try to add a jit_merge_point | 11:36 |
| mattip | and maybe even a zjit test of my own | 11:36 |
| fijal | cool | 11:39 |
| fijal | let me have a quick look btw | 11:39 |
| fijal | mattip: you have unusued variables for one | 11:40 |
| fijal | I have them glow red :) | 11:41 |
| fijal | objlen | 11:41 |
| fijal | ok | 11:41 |
| fijal | this is good enough to *write* a zjit test :) | 11:41 |
| fijal | you might need to add features to compile.py btw | 11:41 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11e1915f5fd176 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: I'm getting sick of this slowly | 11:43 |
| mattip | thanks. Yes, it's still a bit rough. Trying to learn by doing. | 11:50 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11a469f09278ce 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: screw hacks, provide annotation by hand. I wonder if this is enough (very likely not) | 12:15 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 115b4f622c57aa 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/test/test_ztranslation.py: better than nothing | 12:16 |
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| fijal | pfffffffffffffffff | 12:28 |
| fijal | I fuckin give up :/ | 12:29 |
| fijal | where is armin when you need one? | 12:29 |
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| lesshaste | :) | 13:27 |
| lesshaste | fijal, hi | 13:27 |
| fijal | hi | 13:28 |
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| therve | hey there | 14:12 |
| fijal | therve: hi | 14:12 |
| therve | I want to contribute a small feature to the curses module | 14:12 |
| fijal | cool | 14:12 |
| therve | what's the best way to do it? | 14:13 |
| fijal | write a test :) | 14:13 |
| fijal | and put a patch on bugtracer? | 14:13 |
| fijal | if it's really small, just paste it | 14:13 |
| therve | it's surprisingly big | 14:13 |
| therve | I changed the _minimal_curses module | 14:13 |
| therve | and there are different "instances" of it, I don't really what they do | 14:14 |
| fijal | "instances"? | 14:15 |
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| therve | http://paste.ubuntu.com/794884/ is what it looks like | 14:16 |
| therve | fijal, lib_pypy/_minimal_curses.py and pypy/module/_minimal_curses/ | 14:16 |
| fijal | is the lib one even used? | 14:16 |
| fijal | I think no | 14:16 |
| fijal | it's definitely missing tests :) | 14:17 |
| therve | sure :) | 14:17 |
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| therve | so you say the change in lib_pypy is unnecessary? | 14:17 |
| fijal | yeah, just ignore it | 14:18 |
| fijal | there are very bad reasons why you can't use ctypes for module like this | 14:18 |
| therve | ok :) | 14:18 |
| therve | other question: how can you just compile relevant change when you make a change in pypy/module/? | 14:19 |
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| exarkun | ignore it, or delete it? | 14:25 |
| exarkun | therve: You can't. No partial/incremental translation. | 14:26 |
| therve | ah ok. Screw the baby polar bears then. | 14:26 |
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| therve | where should the tests should reside? I'm modifying the 2.7 curses module, should I change test_curses as well? | 14:29 |
| exarkun | is it in the modified lib dir? | 14:30 |
| exarkun | either way, you should probably also try to contribute the improved tests to cpython | 14:30 |
| exarkun | unless there's some reason that it would only apply to pypy | 14:31 |
| lesshaste | anyone looked at the machine learning library http://scikit-learn.org/ in the context of pypy? | 14:31 |
| therve | one step at a time :) | 14:31 |
| therve | exarkun, I changed the 2.7 one. I guess I should changed modified-2.7 instead? | 14:32 |
| exarkun | therve: I /think/ so. I'm not totally clear on how duplicates across 2.7 and modified-2.7 interact. | 14:32 |
| exarkun | lesshaste: Does scikit depend on scipy? | 14:32 |
| exarkun | lesshaste: coz scipy is a big hairy mess with lots of problems wrt running on pypy | 14:33 |
| lesshaste | ah.. scikit-learn is a Python module integrating classic machine learning algorithms in the tightly-knit world of scientific Python packages (numpy, scipy, matplotlib). | 14:33 |
| lesshaste | first get numpy to work then move on from there :) | 14:33 |
| lesshaste | is there any point in numpy when you have pypy ? | 14:34 |
| lesshaste | except for compability | 14:34 |
| lesshaste | compatibility | 14:34 |
| exarkun | sure | 14:34 |
| exarkun | numpy implements some useful things | 14:34 |
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| lesshaste | exarkun, oh right.. I meant more that numpy is always supposed to give a speedup | 14:34 |
| lesshaste | exarkun, when doing the same things as you would in python | 14:34 |
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| lesshaste | which I assumed was because the numerical arrays are implemented more efficeintly | 14:35 |
| lesshaste | is that wrong? | 14:35 |
| exarkun | I certainly hope that someday numpy will be implemented purely in Python and be faster on PyPy than the current version ever was on CPython | 14:35 |
| exarkun | Who knows if that will happen? | 14:35 |
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| lesshaste | well.. I have lots of students who need projects.. so if we can find ways to make suitable projects | 14:36 |
| lesshaste | then that would help | 14:36 |
| lesshaste | except they need hand holding normally | 14:36 |
| lesshaste | so maybe not | 14:36 |
| exarkun | Students are excellent at writing high quality software that stands the test of time. | 14:36 |
| lesshaste | exarkun, I take your sarcasm and agree with it :) | 14:36 |
| exarkun | (I am so bitter, I typed that with a straight face) | 14:36 |
| lesshaste | they are even better at finishing projects properly in such a way that they can be handed over to the next person | 14:37 |
| exarkun | lesshaste: Maybe a task of such reduced scope as adding better unit test coverage to numpy could be taken on by some competent students | 14:38 |
| lesshaste | the problem is that they won't get the marks | 14:38 |
| exarkun | Having full test coverage will help PyPy fully support numpy, someday, in some way | 14:38 |
| exarkun | lesshaste: The marks? | 14:38 |
| lesshaste | exarkun, students want marks | 14:39 |
| lesshaste | if the project is not exciting enough they don't get many | 14:40 |
| lesshaste | grades? | 14:40 |
| lesshaste | I am not sure which dialect you speak :) | 14:40 |
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| fijal | exarkun: need some more help? | 15:05 |
| exarkun | fijal: me? I'm not doing anything right now. | 15:06 |
| fijal | therve: you | 15:07 |
| fijal | exarkun: sorry | 15:07 |
| exarkun | oh, maybe I need help with this | 15:08 |
| exarkun | is evaluation order of keyword argument value expressions in a function call defined? | 15:09 |
| exarkun | is it defined that b is always evaluated before d in f(a=b, c=d)? | 15:09 |
| arigato | I think so, but relying on it seems a bit relying on a corner case | 15:09 |
| exarkun | it's rather convenient :/ | 15:10 |
| arigato | maybe I'm wrong, and relying on it is fine | 15:10 |
| exarkun | http://codepad.org/GD4Sh6pp | 15:11 |
| arigato | I see | 15:11 |
| exarkun | arigato: You sound right to me, I was hoping you'd strongly feel it was defined behavior though :) | 15:11 |
| therve | fijal, so I should change modified-2.7, not 2.7 ? | 15:11 |
| arigato | exarkun: I think your use case merits saying it's defined behavior | 15:12 |
| arigato | it sounds similar to building a big dict with the syntax {'a': b, 'c': d}, | 15:12 |
| fijal | arigato: hi | 15:13 |
| fijal | arigato: I have quite some issues :/ | 15:13 |
| arigato | which also happens to guarantee that b is evaluated before d | 15:13 |
| fijal | maybe you can help | 15:13 |
| arigato | fijal: hi | 15:13 |
| arigato | :-) | 15:13 |
| fijal | so | 15:13 |
| fijal | I'm working on better jit hooks | 15:13 |
| fijal | problem is - how do I expose ResOperation interface at annotation time? | 15:13 |
| fijal | it always conflicts with some later annotations from jitting | 15:14 |
| arigato | looks like a mess | 15:14 |
| lucian | exarkun: there's got to be a better way to write that :) | 15:14 |
| fijal | arigato: yes :/ | 15:15 |
| fijal | arigato: any idea how to get around the mess? | 15:15 |
| arigato | can you delay annotation of the corresponding parts? | 15:15 |
| exarkun | lucian: Probably | 15:16 |
| arigato | or else, the pypyjit module needs to consider these as really opaque objects | 15:16 |
| arigato | and inspect them using pypy.rlib.jit.some_interface() | 15:17 |
| arigato | yes, that sounds saner | 15:17 |
| fijal | arigato: how? | 15:17 |
| fijal | if they're exposed? | 15:17 |
| arigato | they are gcrefs, and you cannot cast them explicitly to ResOperation | 15:18 |
| arigato | you need to use some interface that converts initially to llops | 15:18 |
| arigato | and then replace the llops when applying the jit | 15:18 |
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| fijal | pypy.rlib.jit.some_interface is insane | 15:24 |
| fijal | it has to be modified ni 17 places to do anything | 15:24 |
| fijal | I don't even want to think what happens if I want to use more advanced data structures :( | 15:24 |
| arigato | if you don't want that, then you need to figure out a way to delay annotation | 15:24 |
| lahwran | perhaps refactoring time, eh? | 15:25 |
| arigato | or else, define your own classes in rlib.jit, with some reasonable interface, similar but different from ResOperation | 15:27 |
| arigato | then when the hook is called, the jit needs to make instances of that class | 15:27 |
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| arigato | it also has the advantage that we can change details to the ResOperation class without breaking pypy.module.pypyjit | 15:28 |
| fijal | arigato: but that's extremely fragile | 15:29 |
| fijal | well, to start with the call sites change | 15:29 |
| arigato | ? | 15:29 |
| arigato | to me, that sounds far less fragile than passing directly the ResOperation instances | 15:30 |
| fijal | something, like a method | 15:30 |
| fijal | will become SomePBC(known_descr={..1..}) | 15:30 |
| fijal | into SomePBC(known_descr={..2..}) | 15:30 |
| fijal | no? | 15:30 |
| arigato | no clue what you're really talking about...? | 15:31 |
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| fijal | annotation of methods | 15:31 |
| fijal | say I create jit.FakeResOp | 15:31 |
| fijal | and pass around FakeResOp | 15:31 |
| arigato | I proposed to really have code in the JIT that really makes new instances of pypy.rlib.jit.MyResOperation, copying the ResOperations | 15:31 |
| fijal | ok | 15:32 |
| fijal | well, even ignoring the fact that it's inefficient | 15:32 |
| fijal | how this survives say list resized vs unresized? | 15:32 |
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| fijal | because I'll need mock-only annotated code that's never run right? | 15:32 |
| arigato | no | 15:32 |
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| fijal | no? | 15:33 |
| arigato | or yes, but that's a general problem of all the jit hooks, not just this one | 15:33 |
| fijal | well, yes | 15:34 |
| arigato | then maybe you really need to find a way to delay all annotations of them | 15:34 |
| fijal | I guess I can provide annotations of the interface | 15:35 |
| fijal | say | 15:35 |
| fijal | getopnum() returns int | 15:35 |
| fijal | etc. | 15:35 |
| arigato | ? that's what I proposed first, but you said no | 15:35 |
| fijal | how do I do that? | 15:36 |
| fijal | er | 15:36 |
| fijal | I said "no" to the current way this is implemented | 15:36 |
| fijal | which is invent a hint | 15:36 |
| fijal | emit a special operation | 15:36 |
| fijal | rewrite operation to a call | 15:36 |
| fijal | implement call | 15:36 |
| fijal | unless we have an idea how to automate it | 15:36 |
| arigato | sorry, I'm running out of ideas, I think you have them all and you have to find the one that seems best for you | 15:39 |
| fijal | I like none of them :/ | 15:44 |
| fijal | it's all extremely fragile | 15:44 |
| fijal | I just spent half a day trying to write code that's annotated and not run | 15:44 |
| fijal | that has correct types | 15:45 |
| fijal | and I only wrote 3 functions | 15:45 |
| Rhy0lite | fijal: if you sweep the ugliness under the carpet, it has to appear as a lump somewhere :-) | 15:48 |
| Rhy0lite | for PyPy, that means modifying 17 places | 15:49 |
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| fijal | arigato: I guess I can also simply express my general unhapiness with the situation :/ | 16:11 |
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| fijal | arigato: ok, can I have one more question regarding hints? | 16:18 |
| arigato | yes? | 16:18 |
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| fijal | how do I keep state? | 16:19 |
| fijal | the problem is that - say I have a hint that gets a number out of a resop | 16:19 |
| fijal | so say pypy.rlib.jit.get_resop_no() | 16:19 |
| fijal | how do I store the resop somewhere? | 16:19 |
| arigato | ? | 16:19 |
| fijal | maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly | 16:19 |
| fijal | UH | 16:20 |
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| fijal | so I have a hook that calls python function | 16:20 |
| fijal | space.call_function(w_python_function, some args) | 16:20 |
| fijal | now I have a resop here | 16:20 |
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| fijal | and I want to pass it to some args | 16:20 |
| fijal | I can create say a class WrappedOp(Wrappable): that would have some interface | 16:21 |
| fijal | but I can't do WrappedOp(some_resop) | 16:21 |
| fijal | because the annotator does not know about resop | 16:21 |
| fijal | hm | 16:21 |
| fijal | should I simply pass a llmemory.GCREF and have a hint that accepts that? | 16:21 |
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| arigato | yes | 16:22 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11d498e3a9f2e2 15/pypy/rlib/jit.py: shuffle stuff a bit | 16:23 |
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| fijal | it's fairly messy :/ | 16:23 |
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| fijal | arigato: we should invent some sort of stronger typing system for RPython | 16:25 |
| fijal | so you can specify types | 16:25 |
| fijal | it would help us with things like that, separate compilation and debugging | 16:25 |
| arigato | yes | 16:26 |
| fijal | on a slightly unrelated note, I tried improving docs of RPython, feel like looking - http://paste.pocoo.org/show/530842/ | 16:26 |
| fijal | ? | 16:26 |
| arigato | why did you kill "global lists cannot be modified"? did I forget that we improved the situation? | 16:28 |
| lucian | fijal: could you do it at function call boundaries with the py3 annotation syntax? | 16:28 |
| lucian | like def bla(a: int, b: float) | 16:28 |
| fijal | arigato: uh? | 16:29 |
| fijal | I always modified global lists and never had a problem | 16:29 |
| fijal | same for anto | 16:29 |
| arigato | I mean lists that appear as a global variable | 16:29 |
| fijal | yes | 16:30 |
| Action: arigato tries again | 16:30 | |
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| arigato | no, it doesn't work | 16:31 |
| Rhy0lite | arigato: any more success with GCC? | 16:31 |
| arigato | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/530947/ | 16:31 |
| arigato | prints 0 | 16:31 |
| arigato | Rhy0lite: no | 16:31 |
| fijal | arigato: ok | 16:32 |
| fijal | arigato: so I'll revive this | 16:32 |
| Rhy0lite | how can I help you debug the build problem? | 16:32 |
| Rhy0lite | Hi, sven_hager | 16:32 |
| arigato | Rhy0lite: I suppose I would be happy with a version of gcc where "../trunk/configure; make" works, in some standard distribution like Ubuntu or Debian, 32 or 64 | 16:33 |
| arigato | or even Gentoo | 16:33 |
| arigato | (didn't try Gentoo so far) | 16:33 |
| Rhy0lite | yes, but I think I need to help you build it on your system | 16:34 |
| arigato | well, I'd be fine if it worked on any of the systems listed above | 16:34 |
| fijal | arigato: would you object if I invent a way to make more rigid typing in RPython? | 16:34 |
| Rhy0lite | arigato: I think we need to look at the error messages and fix the problem | 16:35 |
| Rhy0lite | I'm not sure I can make it work out of the box | 16:35 |
| arigato | fijal: no, but it might be a sizeable project, definitely a new branch | 16:36 |
| fijal | arigato: I have a policy of not doing anything with annotation on trunk :) | 16:36 |
| fijal | it's just way too easy to break stuff | 16:36 |
| arigato | :-) | 16:36 |
| arigato | Rhy0lite: ok, I can try again. which of the above systems should I try it on? is ubuntu 64 ok? or would a 32-bit system offer less causes for crashes? | 16:37 |
| Rhy0lite | arigato: Per Arneng claims to be able to build GCC 4.6 on Ubuntu 10.01: http://blog.scalebit.com/2011/04/compiling-gcc-46-in-ubuntu-1010-for-c11.html | 16:38 |
| sven_hager | hello david | 16:38 |
| Rhy0lite | arigato: might be better to start on a 32 bit system | 16:39 |
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| Rhy0lite | arigato: remember to configure in a separate build directory, not in the gcc source code | 16:39 |
| Rhy0lite | and you might try adding --disable-multilib to the configure command | 16:40 |
| arigato | fijal: re changes to the RPython docs: very good | 16:40 |
| fijal | arigato: ok, I'll commit it then | 16:41 |
| arigato | Rhy0lite: ok, trying | 16:41 |
| Rhy0lite | arigato: I'm not sure why the person needed some of the other configure commands | 16:41 |
| Rhy0lite | arigato: if you skip multilib, you may be able to avoid problems with missing libraries | 16:43 |
| Rhy0lite | your 64 bit system may be missing multilib versions of development libraries | 16:44 |
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| TuomasT | I have this threaded Python app, which is some 15-35% faster with PyPy than it is with Psyco and Python2.6. However, running with pypy it sometimes segfaults randomly. GDB does not produce any meaningfull information. How does one go about debugging something like this? | 17:04 |
| TuomasT | I guess debugging enabled pypy executable would be a start | 17:05 |
| arigato | TuomasT: yes... | 17:06 |
| fijal | checking C extension usage also | 17:07 |
| arigato | TuomasT: if you can, build yourself a pypy from sources, and compile it with "make lldebug" | 17:08 |
| arigato | i.e. "translate.py -Ojit --source", move the source code outside /tmp/usession-yourname/, and type "make lldebug" in the "testing_1" subdir | 17:08 |
| arigato | Rhy0lite: ...still compiling... | 17:09 |
| Rhy0lite | good | 17:09 |
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| TuomasT | Is it a problem that I use "import cPickle" instead of "import Pickle" ? | 17:10 |
| arigato | no | 17:10 |
| arigato | but do you use any C extension module from CPython? | 17:10 |
| arigato | (i.e. a module that you compiled with "pypy setup.py install") | 17:11 |
| arigato | a default installation of pypy doesn't contain any: all the modules it has are purely for pypy | 17:11 |
| TuomasT | arigato: no | 17:11 |
| arigato | ok, then it's strange indeed | 17:11 |
| TuomasT | I only have added MySQLdb equivalent for pypy and I use feedparser, which does not use any 3rd party libraries | 17:12 |
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| arigato | any usage of "import ctypes"? | 17:12 |
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| arigato | Rhy0lite: success :-) | 17:13 |
| Rhy0lite | yea! | 17:13 |
| arigato | thank you | 17:13 |
| Rhy0lite | np | 17:13 |
| Rhy0lite | now you can try 64 | 17:13 |
| TuomasT | arigato: no, only the cPickle | 17:13 |
| Rhy0lite | using --disable-multilib | 17:13 |
| Rhy0lite | I think the problem is missing development libraries for the 32 bit multilib on 64 bit system | 17:14 |
| arigato | I already tried with --disable-multilib | 17:15 |
| kenaan | 12edelsohn ppc-jit-backend 115227411080a8 15/pypy/jit/backend/ppc/ppcgen/regalloc.py: Cast value in convert_to_imm, which fixes test_new_with_vtable. | 17:15 |
| arigato | I didn't have --disable-bootstrap --enable-languages=c,c++ though | 17:15 |
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| Rhy0lite | well, --disable-bootstrap is not really correct | 17:15 |
| Rhy0lite | --disable-bootstrap means treat the system like a cross-compiler | 17:16 |
| arigato | bah | 17:16 |
| Rhy0lite | build the new gcc with the system gcc, but don't try to build gcc with itself | 17:16 |
| arigato | I also didn't have bison installed | 17:16 |
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| Rhy0lite | bison should not be necessary because the generated files are included in the tar file | 17:17 |
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| Rhy0lite | at least progress is good | 17:17 |
| Rhy0lite | so you see parts of it can work! | 17:17 |
| arigato | ah, I'll try to keep --disable-bootstrap then | 17:17 |
| Rhy0lite | try to keep? | 17:18 |
| arigato | some of the errors I used to get where in stage 3 compilation | 17:18 |
| arigato | were | 17:18 |
| Rhy0lite | ah, hmm | 17:18 |
| Rhy0lite | comparison failures? | 17:18 |
| arigato | no | 17:18 |
| arigato | I don't remember which error were where :-) | 17:18 |
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| arigato | Rhy0lite: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/530978/ | 17:31 |
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| pgollakota | Hello! | 17:33 |
| arigato | hi | 17:34 |
| pgollakota | I have been using Python for a while and recently got interested in PyPy | 17:34 |
| pgollakota | I want to browse the source for Python implemented in PyPy (not the RPython toolchain) | 17:34 |
| pgollakota | especially as a way to understand how the builtin data types of Python have been implemented in PyPy | 17:35 |
| arigato | :-) | 17:35 |
| pgollakota | I can't figure out where the source code for Python implementations of List, Tuple etc. are located. | 17:35 |
| pgollakota | Can you please help me? | 17:36 |
| arigato | that's pypy.objspace.std.listobject | 17:36 |
| arigato | and tupleobject etc. | 17:36 |
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| pgollakota | Domo arigato arigato! :) | 17:37 |
| arigato | :-) | 17:37 |
| pgollakota | BTW, Is there any resource that explains the directory structure of PyPy. I tried searching for "PyPy directory structure", etc. with no real luck. | 17:39 |
| arigato | not really | 17:40 |
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| arigato | ah yes | 17:41 |
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| arigato | http://doc.pypy.org/ , bottom of the page | 17:41 |
| pgollakota | :o Embarrassing | 17:42 |
| pgollakota | Thanks! | 17:42 |
| amaury_ | http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/architecture.html#pypy-architecture ? | 17:42 |
| pgollakota | Thanks amaury_ | 17:43 |
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| arigato | :-) | 17:56 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo concurrent-marksweep 11719f30faa809 15/pypy/rpython/memory/gc/: Start implementing the new section. | 17:59 |
| kenaan | 12arigo concurrent-marksweep 114f6d92354eb2 15/pypy/rpython/memory/gc/: test_many_objects passes again :-) | 17:59 |
| kenaan | 12fijal separate-applevel-numpy 1116ea77edcb5e 15/: close the branch will be redone | 18:01 |
| kenaan | 12fijal import-numpy 11be18c0104736 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/__init__.py: rename the interplevel module | 18:01 |
| kenaan | 12fijal default 11b67e65d709e1 15/pypy/doc/coding-guide.rst: make coding guide a bit more up to date when it comes to RPython definition | 18:01 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: pong | 18:31 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: mess :/ | 18:31 |
| Alex_Gaynor | with annotation? | 18:31 |
| fijal | yes | 18:32 |
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| andrewfr | @arigato added the gc=none and it worked! | 18:34 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I'm trying to document numpy instead | 18:35 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: numpypy you mean? | 18:35 |
| fijal | yes | 18:35 |
| Alex_Gaynor | docs for the code you mean? | 18:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | that is, internals | 18:36 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | fijal_: don't we have a way to specify types in RPython? objectmodel.enforce_annotation or something | 18:37 |
| fijal_ | yeah? | 18:38 |
| fijal_ | so specify me unmodifiable list of ResOps | 18:38 |
| Alex_Gaynor | heh, indeed | 18:38 |
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| fijal_ | if we have stuff like sepcomp would not be such a mess | 18:40 |
| Nick change: fijal_ -> fijal | 18:40 | |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: you still have class numbering to deal with | 18:41 |
| fijal | yeah | 18:41 |
| fijal | but that's easy compared to everything else | 18:41 |
| Alex_Gaynor | sure | 18:42 |
| fijal | so to have good better-jit-hooks we need to address that issue I fear | 18:42 |
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| fijal | arigato: is there any point any more to keep faking around? | 18:42 |
| fijal | --no-nofaking is my favorite py.py option :) | 18:43 |
| fijal | heh | 18:44 |
| fijal | importing numpy on cpython does not work either | 18:44 |
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| fijal | "Thank you for your willingness to help make NumPy the best array system | 18:45 |
| fijal | available." | 18:45 |
| arigato | --no-nofaking starts in 14 seconds, whereas --nofaking starts in 0.1 seconds less | 18:45 |
| fijal | arigato: I would like to file a bug report, faking does not work on pypy :) | 18:46 |
| fijal | arigato: for what is worth, I completely fail to understand how do you develop numpy | 18:47 |
| fijal | "you should not try to import numpy from | 18:48 |
| fijal | its source directory; please exit the numpy source tree, and relaunch | 18:48 |
| fijal | your python intepreter from there. | 18:48 |
| fijal | " | 18:48 |
| Alex_Gaynor | para ingles? | 18:48 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: so I have to install it to do anything? | 18:49 |
| fijal | why? | 18:49 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: I dunno, they alsao like C, cython, and fortran though, so maybe they aren't totally sane by our standards | 18:49 |
| Alex_Gaynor | we like python quite a bit :) | 18:49 |
| fijal | numpy is 12M | 18:51 |
| fijal | of python | 18:51 |
| Alex_Gaynor | o_O | 18:51 |
| fijal | ah no | 18:51 |
| fijal | not just python | 18:51 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | according to sloccount it is: 112k c, 82k python, 800 cpp | 18:52 |
| Alex_Gaynor | who knows if that's accurate though | 18:52 |
| Action: nick125 mumbles something about fortran... | 18:52 | |
| Alex_Gaynor | nick125: 300 fortran, 200 f90m if this is to be trusted | 18:52 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I'm importing numpy | 18:53 |
| fijal | or pieces of it | 18:53 |
| nick125 | I was rewriting some code from fortran 66 to Python yesterday...yeah. | 18:53 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: it would be really cool if we could ship _numpy and say "pip install numpy" to actually have it be usable | 18:53 |
| Alex_Gaynor | nick125: David Beazley was contemplating rewriting some Fortran/C (I forget which) he wrote 20 years ago and won some scientific computing performance award for in Python, just to benchmark it under pypy :) | 18:54 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: doubt that | 18:54 |
| fijal | pip install numpypy though? | 18:54 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: seems reasonable, it's just dumb to ship a bunch of NumPy sources in pypy tree | 18:55 |
| fijal | yeah | 18:55 |
| fijal | we can skip that | 18:55 |
| fijal | I suggest putting them under pypy/numpypy on bitbucket | 18:55 |
| fijal | and uploading to pypi? | 18:55 |
| fijal | arigato: do you have opinions? | 18:55 |
| Alex_Gaynor | makes sense to me | 18:55 |
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| Action: fijal expects armin to carefully not have opinion | 18:55 | |
| amaury_ | we already have lib-python and lib_pypy | 18:57 |
| Alex_Gaynor | the idea is for this to be outside the pypy sourcetree | 18:58 |
| amaury_ | so is lib_pypy | 18:58 |
| Alex_Gaynor | outside the repo then :) | 18:58 |
| amaury_ | ah ok | 18:58 |
| amaury_ | makes sense then | 18:58 |
| amaury_ | our fork of (part of) numpy | 18:59 |
| fijal | so we'll only ship _numpypy right? | 18:59 |
| fijal | it might be an API mess | 18:59 |
| fijal | but at least lets make sure releases are fine | 18:59 |
| Alex_Gaynor | k | 18:59 |
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| fijal | unlike my pypy checkout which is 16G | 19:33 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: o_O | 19:33 |
| Alex_Gaynor | mine is 507MB | 19:34 |
| fijal | compiled C | 19:34 |
| fijal | mostly | 19:34 |
| fijal | hm | 19:36 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: we should probably bundle it | 19:37 |
| fijal | nightly runs of tests? | 19:37 |
| Alex_Gaynor | why? | 19:37 |
| Alex_Gaynor | we can just have our tests import _numpy | 19:37 |
| Alex_Gaynor | and assume the pure python we didn't write is fine | 19:37 |
| Alex_Gaynor | unless you mean nightly runs of numpy's tests, in which case that should be a seperate run | 19:37 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I think | 19:38 |
| Alex_Gaynor | (because they'll mostly fail ATM) | 19:38 |
| fijal | hm | 19:39 |
| fijal | I think it's still easier to import it | 19:39 |
| fijal | but fine | 19:39 |
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| fijal | can someone make bbhook report that? | 19:43 |
| Alex_Gaynor | report what? | 19:43 |
| fijal | report commits to pypy/numpypy on bitbucket | 19:44 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: can you up to import-numpy branch and see if tests pass for you? | 19:50 |
| fijal | test_module specifically | 19:50 |
| kenaan | 12fijal import-numpy 114fa4cf3c8f35 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/test/: fix tests | 19:50 |
| kenaan | 12fijal import-numpy 11d06444d3b317 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/test/test_ztranslation.py: fix test_ztrasnlation | 19:50 |
| Alex_Gaynor | sure | 19:50 |
| Alex_Gaynor | is push finished? | 19:51 |
| fijal | yes | 19:51 |
| fijal | oh wow | 19:52 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: you know that docstrings are actually added at applevel? | 19:52 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: fine with me :) it's not like __doc__ has _immutable_fields_? | 19:53 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/531037/ | 19:54 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: do you have any vision as to *why* this is failing? | 19:55 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: in pdb I see that there's an IMPORT_NAME opcode with "numpypy" as teh str | 19:55 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: ah, app_numpy.py | 19:56 |
| fijal | ah | 19:56 |
| fijal | that is a very confusing message :) | 19:56 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it's only confusing because appnumpy has no frame | 19:56 |
| Alex_Gaynor | in a traceback | 19:56 |
| fijal | yes | 19:56 |
| kenaan | 12fijal import-numpy 119b39d93ee949 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/app_numpy.py: fix more tests, thanks alex | 19:57 |
| kenaan | 12fijal import-numpy 1131e655394304 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/test/test_ufuncs.py: fix more tests | 19:59 |
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| fijal_ | wtf? | 20:01 |
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| fijal_ | my computer just turned itself off | 20:01 |
| Nick change: fijal_ -> fijal | 20:02 | |
| CIA-53 | 03jmr 07roundup * 10#983/Publish hashes for source archives: | 20:04 |
| CIA-53 | [new] The download page currently lists hashes only for the binaries. Please provide | 20:04 |
| CIA-53 | hashes for the source archives as well. (GPG signatures for ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue983 | 20:04 |
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| arigato | (issue983: essential request, but that's my sarcastic opinion only) | 20:05 |
| fijal | arigato: it's not like we check whoever commits code | 20:07 |
| fijal | I can easily imagine someone slipping in some backdoor at least in short term | 20:07 |
| arigato | yes | 20:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | well, I at least read every commit that comes in :) | 20:08 |
| arigato | on the other hand, anyone concerned about this should get the mercurial source and update to the known revision of release-1.7 | 20:08 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: yes, but not immediately | 20:08 |
| fijal | arigato: you can probably to man-in-the-middle? | 20:08 |
| fijal | no, not really | 20:08 |
| fijal | I have no idea what those people are after | 20:09 |
| arigato | not really, you can't easily forge mercurial numbers | 20:09 |
| fijal | it's also https | 20:09 |
| Action: arigato computes the hashes | 20:09 | |
| arigato | ...by downloading the file and computing the hashes without even trying to check that the file is absolutely correct | 20:10 |
| arigato | of course | 20:10 |
| CIA-53 | 03arigo 07roundup * 10#983/Publish hashes for source archives: | 20:11 |
| CIA-53 | [chatting] fd0ad58b92ca0933c087bb93a82fda9e release-1.7.tar.bz2 | 20:11 |
| CIA-53 | b4be3a8dc69cd838a49382867db3c41864b9e8d9 release-1.7.tar.bz2 * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue983 | 20:11 |
| fijal | no, I expect you to read the entire pypy source code :) | 20:11 |
| arigato | I could at least check that the file is exactly the same as the one originally produced from hg | 20:11 |
| arigato | but it's so likely to be a waste of time that I won't investigate that | 20:12 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo pypy.org[extradoc] 113b4a745b2e65 15/: Add hashes. | 20:14 |
| kenaan | 12arigo pypy.org[extradoc] 11c809887b1d6e 15/: merge heads | 20:14 |
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| CIA-53 | 03arigo 07roundup * 10#983/Publish hashes for source archives: | 20:23 |
| CIA-53 | [chatting] Closing either as "resolved" or as "wontfix", depending on your position. I | 20:23 |
| CIA-53 | suspect that the position of many pypy developers is "res ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue983 | 20:23 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: ping | 21:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: pong | 21:07 |
| fijal | so... | 21:07 |
| fijal | we can't import numpy | 21:07 |
| fijal | give up | 21:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | why not? | 21:07 |
| fijal | but we have to tell people not to copy pieces | 21:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | err, what license is numpy anyways? | 21:07 |
| fijal | because it's shitload of work to just mock stuff | 21:07 |
| fijal | this code is insane | 21:08 |
| fijal | or maybe if they want we can import temporary hacks | 21:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | what if we modify their code slightly? | 21:08 |
| fijal | mikefc: ping | 21:08 |
| fijal | "slightly" | 21:08 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: you do that :) | 21:08 |
| fijal | no, you can't modify it slightly | 21:08 |
| fijal | because everything happens at import time | 21:08 |
| fijal | you can try to copy pieces though | 21:08 |
| fijal | if you care | 21:08 |
| fijal | that's what mikefc was doing | 21:08 |
| fijal | and I complained :) | 21:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | what license is nump? | 21:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | looks to be bsd | 21:09 |
| fijal | no, not license | 21:09 |
| fijal | technically you can't modify it slightly | 21:09 |
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| Action: arigato good night | 21:18 | |
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| GoGi | can I use ipython with pypy? | 21:23 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | GoGi: yes | 21:28 |
| GoGi | can I somehow install it into the pypy site-packages or how does it work? | 21:28 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | GoGi: I'd create a virtualenv for pypy and just pip install ipython | 21:37 |
| GoGi | I have tried virtualenv | 21:38 |
| GoGi | it actually copies over the pypy binary | 21:38 |
| GoGi | into the virtual environment | 21:38 |
| GoGi | is this correct? | 21:38 |
| tumbleweed | that's how virtualenvs work | 21:38 |
| GoGi | but it does not copy the lib_pypy directory | 21:38 |
| GoGi | so how will the pypy binary find lib_pypy? | 21:39 |
| tumbleweed | hrm, it should probably copy it | 21:40 |
| Action: tumbleweed hasn't played much with pypy and ve yet, so I'll shut up :) | 21:41 | |
| GoGi | well it seems to work | 21:45 |
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| GoGi | it actually created a lib_pypy directory | 21:47 |
| GoGi | but it contains only readline.py | 21:48 |
| GoGi | what is going on? | 21:48 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I'll incorporate people's patches tomorrow then | 21:53 |
| fijal | they were right I was wrong :) | 21:53 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: ok, I'll continue on tracebin then :) | 21:53 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I have the models, and some demo data, now I'm updating templates for real data | 21:53 |
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| GoGi | well it seems to work | 21:58 |
| GoGi | can I somehow install scipy and tell it to use the numpy replacement from pypy? | 21:58 |
| exarkun | no | 22:01 |
| GoGi | is this only the case because numpypy is not complete? | 22:04 |
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| exarkun | GoGi: At least in part, yes. | 22:07 |
| exarkun | GoGi: Additionally, scipy contains lots of extra C code that probably won't work. | 22:07 |
| exarkun | GoGi: fijal figured out something that allowed matplotlib to work. It's possible that solution could be applicable to scipy, but I don't know many of the details. There's a blog post about it on the PyPy blog, though. | 22:08 |
| fijal_ | GoGi: it's possible, but not *right now* | 22:09 |
| fijal_ | GoGi: if you're interested in working on making scipy work, you can definitely help | 22:10 |
| fijal_ | but you can't use it right now | 22:10 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal import-numpy 11eb12a969ddf7 15/: abandon this approach | 22:18 |
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| mikefc | "abandon this approach" | 22:37 |
| mikefc | oh, how I often I have heard/used those words :) | 22:37 |
| mikefc | fijal: pong | 22:37 |
| mikefc | fijal: no luck doing the fancy numpy import? | 22:38 |
| fijal | mikefc: well, you were right, I gonna just put your patches | 22:38 |
| fijal | yeah | 22:38 |
| mikefc | fijal: so that means lots of manual copy-ing/fixing of the numpy stuff into numpypy? | 22:38 |
| fijal | well | 22:38 |
| fijal | it depends | 22:38 |
| fijal | what's the goal | 22:38 |
| fijal | is the goal to have some functionality now, or when we're done? | 22:38 |
| mikefc | my goal is a little bit more functionality now, but i understand that that may not be possible. | 22:39 |
| mikefc | i'm willing to hold off on doing anything until you have the internals figured. | 22:39 |
| fijal | well | 22:40 |
| fijal | if you build stuff now you'll get functionality now | 22:40 |
| fijal | internals are pretty good | 22:40 |
| fijal | but I won't do that for example | 22:40 |
| fijal | so I'm going to incorporate your patches and you'll have this functionality tomorrow | 22:40 |
| mikefc | ok. I'm open to suggestions on how you think I should proceed. I want to get a few more applevel things in place - even if it is just docstrings and NotImplemented exceptions. is that OK? | 22:42 |
| fijal | yes | 22:42 |
| fijal | just submit patches | 22:42 |
| mikefc | I guess my 'from_numeric' patch could be put in a separate file, so that the layout at least mimics numpy's layout. | 22:42 |
| mikefc | it would make app_numpy.py less crowded | 22:43 |
| mikefc | so if you hold off on that fromnumeric patch, i will separate it out sometime this weekend. when/if I get the time. | 22:44 |
| mikefc | so i would create an app_fromnumeric and do the appropriate things in __init__.py | 22:44 |
| mikefc | and an app_numeric.py | 22:47 |
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| mikefc | i also would like to maybe do a little bit of linalg hacking. maybe just get a couple of functions in there (at applevel) | 22:47 |
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| mikefc | fijal: you said a few hours back to Alex_Gaynor "but we have to tell people not to copy pieces" in regards to numpy/numpypy. What do you mean by this? | 22:49 |
| fijal | nothing interesting actually | 22:49 |
| fijal | mikefc: yes, it should not go to app_numpy.py | 22:50 |
| fijal | instead it should go to lib_pypy/numpypy | 22:50 |
| mikefc | so applevel stuff "copied" over from numpy will go in lib_pypy/numpypy, but there'll still be a mixed module in pypy/module? | 22:55 |
| mikefc | "copied" == copied and manually tweaked | 22:55 |
| fijal | yes | 22:57 |
| fijal | interp level will stay in mixed module | 22:57 |
| fijal | it does not have to have applevel parts to be mixed :) | 22:57 |
| mikefc | ok. I'll have a go when I get the chance. | 22:58 |
| Action: mikefc has to go out. afk. | 22:58 | |
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| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/196 | 23:00 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-macosx-x86-32/builds/768 | 23:00 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/1005 | 23:00 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64-2/builds/24 | 23:00 |
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| stakkars_ | howdy! | 23:01 |
| stakkars_ | I want to improve IRC logging, have better clients, etc. | 23:01 |
| stakkars_ | I'm looking into "Quassel", which seems to be pretty close to what I want. | 23:02 |
| stakkars_ | Does anyone have experience with Quassel? | 23:02 |
| ronny | stakkars_: try it for a bit, the client-server idea for up <> bncish thing is a nice idea, its up to you to figure if it works out for you | 23:05 |
| stakkars_ | ronny: yes, will try it. I thought to set thngs up using my new server, as a better approach to | 23:08 |
| stakkars_ | the IRC logs with pybot. I would like to have integration with the IRC client, so that people can browse IRC with a remote connection that never stops. | 23:09 |
| stakkars_ | so I would enable this for all interested #pypy users as a service | 23:10 |
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| tilgovi | I'm having trouble finding information on creating a shared library pypy | 23:18 |
| tilgovi | where should I be looking in the docs? | 23:18 |
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| tilgovi | nevermind. found it in configuration. | 23:19 |
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| tilgovi | hmm... the compatibility matrix in the 1.7 docs seems wrong. doesn't jit+stackless work now? I thought that was the default in the binary download. | 23:51 |
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| --- Sat Jan 7 2012 | 00:00 | |
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