| ronny | tilgovi: stackless usage will cancel tracing | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| ronny | tilgovi: so you can use jit, or stackless features | 00:02 |
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| tilgovi | ronny: ahh. so both are enabled in the build, but greenlet execution isn't traced? | 00:03 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | tilgovi: more or less, yes | 00:07 |
| tilgovi | thanks | 00:08 |
| GoGi | the documentation says that translated rpython uses normal C long variables to hold ints | 00:08 |
| GoGi | so in translated and non-translated code ints behave differently | 00:09 |
| GoGi | why is this not a problem? | 00:09 |
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| ronny | GoGi: non-translated is only ever usefull for testing, all serious computation is done on translated ones | 00:13 |
| ronny | GoGi: non-translated is several orders of magnitude slower than translated | 00:13 |
| GoGi | how do you make sure that the integers are not too big | 00:14 |
| GoGi | well actually I have always wondered about what standard C programs do | 00:15 |
| GoGi | do they really silently fail if, say, you give them a command line argument that is too big to be put into whatever integer variable the C program wants to put it in | 00:15 |
| ronny | c lacks overflow detection | 00:16 |
| GoGi | yes but you could manually implement it | 00:17 |
| ronny | btw, why do you care, what do you do with the integers? | 00:17 |
| GoGi | just curious because I have read that section in the documentation | 00:18 |
| GoGi | but it is probably no big deal anyway | 00:18 |
| ronny | my unpropperly informed oppinion is, that if you have numbers big enough to make that a deal, you might be in need of a bigint kind of thing anyway | 00:19 |
| ronny | also night | 00:19 |
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| rekamso | 'This makes weak proxies (as returned by weakref.proxy()) somewhat less useful' <-- does this apply to weakref.ref() as well? | 01:02 |
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| bbot2 | 3Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/196 | 01:29 |
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| fijal | jterrace: hi | 01:32 |
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| jterrace | hey | 01:32 |
| fijal | jterrace: can you brief me on your numpy branches? | 01:33 |
| fijal | what's their status | 01:33 |
| jterrace | oh i only have numpy-concatenate outstanding | 01:33 |
| jterrace | and it's fubar | 01:33 |
| fijal | ok | 01:34 |
| fijal | which means? | 01:34 |
| jterrace | i did it in app space, and it should be done in interp space instead | 01:35 |
| jterrace | and there is a failing test anyway | 01:35 |
| jterrace | so it's mostly just needs to be thrown away | 01:35 |
| fijal | ok | 01:36 |
| fijal | can I close it then? | 01:36 |
| jterrace | yeah i think it's fine to close | 01:37 |
| fijal | thanks | 01:37 |
| kenaan | 12fijal numpy-concatenate 11c62c1d1837b7 15/: closed branch that went nowhere | 01:37 |
| fijal | cool, armin got a PSF award :) | 01:40 |
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| GoGi | i can not run the pypy interpreter from a translated pypy | 02:54 |
| GoGi | I get an AssertionError | 02:54 |
| GoGi | File "/mnt/loc1/py/dev/pypy-pypy-ff4af8f31882/pypy/objspace/std/fake.py", line 53, in fake_type | 02:55 |
| GoGi | assert type(cpy_type) is type | 02:55 |
| GoGi | I can however run pypy from cpython | 02:55 |
| bbot2 | 3Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/1005 | 03:08 |
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| exarkun | You have to pass some args | 03:26 |
| exarkun | I forget what they are | 03:26 |
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| magicblaze007 | I have never used pypy. On windows, when I unzipped pypy, and execute pypy.exe -- there is no output. Is this normal? | 04:23 |
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| mikefc | http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2012/01/armin-rigo-receives-psf-community.html | 04:52 |
| mikefc | woo | 04:52 |
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| mikefc | fijal: (for when you get back) why rename interp level from numpypy to _numpypy? | 04:59 |
| mikefc | is that because numpypy is going to be at applevel in lib_pypy/numpypy? | 05:03 |
| Action: mikefc isn't any good at module magic | 05:03 | |
| mikefc | OK. I'm lost again. I have not idea how to make applevel code in lib_pypy/numpypy appear in the numpypy module. | 05:14 |
| mikefc | "no idea" | 05:14 |
| mikefc | anyone know what I should do? | 05:15 |
| mikefc | I've created pypy/lib_pypy/numpypy/__init__.py (empty) | 05:16 |
| mikefc | and a dummy fromnumeric.py in the same dir. that only contains "def std(a) return a" | 05:16 |
| mikefc | it's no fun being the only person in a timezone :( | 05:19 |
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| timotimo | mikefc: are you still awake? | 06:27 |
| mikefc | yup. | 06:27 |
| Action: mikefc is trying to work out how to just reuse fromnumeric from numpy with minimal changes. | 06:27 | |
| timotimo | hm, i was about to tell you to put the applevel things into the micronumpy module | 06:27 |
| timotimo | but i'm not actually sure any more | 06:27 |
| mikefc | timotimo: fijal was talking about splitting it somehow so that micronumpy is _numpypy (still as a mixed module), but then there's applevel code in lib_pypy/numpy. | 06:28 |
| mikefc | i don't know enough of what needs to be done. | 06:28 |
| mikefc | i'm going to put another version of the fromnumeric patch up on bugs.pypy. This time things are a little more split into files. | 06:30 |
| timotimo | i've done it once before, but it was at an unfortunate time and i ended up breaking things when merging in master | 06:32 |
| CIA-53 | 03mikefc 07roundup * 10#981/micronumpy 'fromnumeric' patch: | 06:36 |
| CIA-53 | This is v2 of the fromnumeric patch. (2 extra files are coming after this) | 06:36 |
| CIA-53 | This version | 06:36 |
| CIA-53 | * puts docstrings & adapted code from numpy/core/fromn ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue981 | 06:36 |
| CIA-53 | 03mikefc 07roundup * 10#981/micronumpy 'fromnumeric' patch: file = pypy/module/micronumpy/app_fromnumeric.py * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue981 | 06:37 |
| CIA-53 | 03mikefc 07roundup * 10#981/micronumpy 'fromnumeric' patch: file = pypy/module/micronumpy/test/test_fromnumeric.py * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue981 | 06:37 |
| mikefc | couldn't figure out how to add multiple files to an issue | 06:37 |
| CIA-53 | 03mikefc 07roundup * 10#981/micronumpy 'fromnumeric' patch: patch for current default branch: * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue981 | 06:39 |
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| mikefc | numpypy help needed again (sorry) | 07:26 |
| mikefc | how would I setup a linalg directory (for example) underneath numpypy (which is a mixed module) | 07:27 |
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| mikefc | and all the numpy.polynomical stuff is pure python | 07:33 |
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| bbot2 | 4Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/319 | 07:39 |
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| Action: mikefc thinks an applevel implementation of cholesky could be interesting to time. | 08:14 | |
| Action: mikefc is also wondering about a purepython fft | 08:15 | |
| mikefc | i know we should just piggy back on blas/lapack, but that sounds boring :) | 08:15 |
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| ChrisMorgan | I'm trying to use PyPy to translate a trivial RPython script on Windows with mingw32, but it's failing when it gets to "make in c:\docume~1\chris\locals~1\temp\usession-unknown-4\testing_1". This is because with mingw32-make, the executable is called mingw32-make.exe. I don't believe all users will have it called mingw32-make.exe, but many will. | 08:52 |
| ChrisMorgan | It seems to me that pypy.translator.platform.windows.MingwPlatform.make_cmd should be set to 'mingw32-make' first if it's in the PATH. I'm quite willing to fix this myself and submit the patch, but (a) it may be more convenient for someone else to and (b) is there anything already in pypy to simplify such path searching or does it need to be done entirely manually (but it wouldn't be bound by RPython, I think)? | 08:52 |
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| mikefc | ChrisMorgan: I don't know if there is anything already for the path searching, but patches are always welcomed -> bugs.pypy.org | 08:57 |
| Action: ChrisMorgan should have actually tried finding such a thing first... py._path.local.LocalPath.sysfind | 08:59 | |
| ChrisMorgan | Ugly and incomplete for Windows. It includes expansion for %SystemRoot%, but it's possible for the Windows path to include arbitrary environment variables. I presume there would be a reason it wouldn't use os.path.expandvars? | 09:01 |
| mikefc | ChrisMorgan: if it's not commented, then the reasons may be lost to the mist of time... | 09:04 |
| ChrisMorgan | It's not. Other things in os are used, so I really can't say I know or understand. Is it possible it's meant to be RPython and os.path.expandvars isn't implemented yet in RPython? | 09:05 |
| mikefc | ChrisMorgan: that is possible. I'm not an rpython person | 09:06 |
| ChrisMorgan | OK. I certainly don't know at this point. I'm just muddling my way along :-) | 09:06 |
| ChrisMorgan | I can tell I need to compile something of a decent size. I haven't seen more than three lines of the mandelbrot yet. | 09:11 |
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| fijal | mikefc: hey | 09:14 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: hey | 09:15 |
| amaury_ | ChrisMorgan: code in translator.platform does not need to be RPython | 09:15 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: mingw is not quite supported | 09:15 |
| mikefc | fijal: morning. me is preping/eating dinner. | 09:15 |
| amaury_ | fijal: actually, it used to work | 09:16 |
| ChrisMorgan | Well, I've found what I wanted to know: 94KB for a basic "Hello world" with --gc=none on MinGW. (I'm trying to build it as small as I can.) Any tips on whether could be made smaller than that? | 09:16 |
| fijal | mikefc: you have to renamed numpypy to _numpypy because otherwise you'll have a conflict | 09:16 |
| fijal | you can put numpypy/polynominal/whatever in lib_pypy no problem | 09:16 |
| fijal | amaury_: still unsupported | 09:16 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: it contains a lot of boilerplate code | 09:16 |
| amaury_ | ChrisMorgan: yes, some helper functions are compiled even when they are not used | 09:16 |
| ChrisMorgan | Well, it's working fine for me on this trivial example. I tried it rather than MSVC because I had MinGW easily accessible but not t'other. | 09:16 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: why do you need less? | 09:17 |
| ChrisMorgan | fijal: I'm evaluating RPython as a potential replacement language for the PortableApps.com Launcher, a product currently written in NSIS (rather a mess!) | 09:18 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: why not just pythn? | 09:18 |
| fijal | I would strongly recommend against using RPython as a general purpose language | 09:18 |
| ChrisMorgan | fijal: too big. Each portable app that we distribute contains a launcher which we want to be as tiny as possible (currently with icon and some necessary plugins for such things as registry work included they're generally 100-150KB). | 09:19 |
| fijal | ok, so what does the launcher do? | 09:20 |
| ChrisMorgan | Makes apps portable; deals with things like command line arguments, environment variables, file modifications, registry stuff, file/directory backing up and restoring. | 09:20 |
| fijal | maybe try go or some other compiled language? | 09:22 |
| fijal | seriously, RPython is not recommended | 09:22 |
| ChrisMorgan | For what reason? Because of the restrictions, the fluid nature of it, the lack of documentation, or some combination of these sorts of factors? | 09:22 |
| fijal | it's not that fluid any more (I even updated the docs!) | 09:23 |
| fijal | mostly because it was designed as a pypy internal tool | 09:24 |
| fijal | so for example error messages if something does not compile are obscure | 09:24 |
| ChrisMorgan | I've noticed that! | 09:25 |
| fijal | documentation is not great either | 09:25 |
| fijal | restrictions are livable | 09:26 |
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| ChrisMorgan | I've evaluated a few other languages, but they all either compile too large or do things like depend on msvcr60.dll or other such DLLs, which strikes them off the list. Our executables need to be entirely self-contained. At least with this trivial example, RPython does that: the produced executable depends only on kernel32.dll and msvcrt.dll which are both standard Windows DLLs. | 09:28 |
| fijal | ok | 09:28 |
| fijal | chances are it'll be better than NSIS | 09:28 |
| fijal | have you considered just embedding a lua interpreter? | 09:29 |
| ChrisMorgan | I haven't looked at Lua yet. I figured that as an interpreted language it would be too big... is it not? | 09:29 |
| fijal | I have no idea actually, but LUA interpreter is known to be smallish | 09:30 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: you would need to evaluate | 09:31 |
| ChrisMorgan | When going out language hunting, I've been figuring on about 100KB of overhead as about as much as we can stand (without very good reason). RPython matches that (though that's without a GC--the boehm one adds on 5KB to 42KB on Ubuntu, don't have it set up on Windows; not sure if having no GC would be a problem or not). | 09:35 |
| amaury_ | ChrisMorgan: Shouldn't you use C for this? | 09:35 |
| ChrisMorgan | Quick searching doesn't indicate Lua would cut it (DLL dependencies). | 09:36 |
| ChrisMorgan | amaury_: a mortal fear of C ;-) | 09:36 |
| ronny | how about pascal | 09:36 |
| Action: ronny runs | 09:36 | |
| ChrisMorgan | ronny: dependencies problem or, going back far enough for that to vanish, lack of Unicode support. | 09:37 |
| amaury_ | ChrisMorgan: for the gc, did you try --gc=semispace ? | 09:37 |
| ChrisMorgan | amaury_: nothing in particular, really, it just happens that neither of us currently involved in the PortableApps.com Launcher development are familiar with C, while both of us are with Python... and it's a nicer language, anyway. | 09:37 |
| ronny | btw, have you tried shedskin? | 09:38 |
| amaury_ | doesn't it only build extension modules? | 09:38 |
| fijal | ronny: it's an awful hack | 09:38 |
| fijal | ronny: I would use RPython over sheskin always | 09:39 |
| ronny | ok | 09:39 |
| ChrisMorgan | ronny: I haven't yet. It was something that I was intending to evaluate next week, but without expecting success from my initial looking at it. | 09:39 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: ok, one more word of warning - RPython will have some significant overhead over writing the same thing in C | 09:39 |
| ronny | i never investigated it closely, i guess that wont be necessary anymore | 09:39 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: I mean code will be slightly longer | 09:39 |
| fijal | but you can probably live with that | 09:39 |
| ChrisMorgan | fijal: NSIS doesn't do a terribly compact job of things itself, though it's not too bad... I'll see what it ends up like with some larger samples. | 09:41 |
| fijal | ok | 09:41 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: there are ways to make executable smaller, like disable or enabling some options | 09:42 |
| ChrisMorgan | And we don't need to worry at all about performance, methinks... the degree of lousiness in NSIS's performance has to be seen to be believed. | 09:42 |
| fijal | boehm is your likely choice for the GC | 09:42 |
| fijal | also you can disable inlining and such | 09:42 |
| fijal | or at least play with it | 09:42 |
| ChrisMorgan | Hey! Down to 69KB with UPX compression. Almost forgot to do that :-) | 09:44 |
| ChrisMorgan | Oh yes, one of the other requirements has just occurred to me: the executable will need to run in the window subsystem (rather than console) and have executable version info (icon, name, description, etc.) in it. I imagine I may need to get my hands quite dirty to get that in? | 09:46 |
| fijal | I have no idea | 09:47 |
| fijal | how do you do that in C? | 09:47 |
| ChrisMorgan | Compile an rc file to a res file and then during linking add the res file to the list of o files. | 09:50 |
| fijal | that should not be overly hard to do | 09:51 |
| ChrisMorgan | Yeah, doesn't sound like it should be. Just insert a couple of extra bits into pypy... or subclass a class or two in my own code, perhaps. | 09:52 |
| fijal | there is support for that already, since sometimes you need to add libs or whatnot | 09:52 |
| fijal | but yeah, the precise usecase might need a tweak or two | 09:52 |
| ChrisMorgan | amaury_: semispace adds 70KB -- 30KB less than minimark, but still too much. What would be the consequences of doing without a GC? Need to del things manually, or would it just never free the memory? | 09:55 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: boehm | 09:56 |
| amaury_ | never free memory | 09:56 |
| fijal | you can't do anything with --gc=none | 09:56 |
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| fijal | ChrisMorgan: it's more complex than that btw, it also inlines mallocs which quite greatly increases executable size | 09:56 |
| amaury_ | is refcounting still available? | 09:56 |
| ChrisMorgan | fijal: I'll certainly be trying it. | 09:56 |
| amaury_ | --gc=ref | 09:57 |
| Action: ChrisMorgan goes afk for ten minutes or so | 09:57 | |
| fijal | amaury_: no, it is, but does not work | 09:57 |
| amaury_ | because of cycles? | 09:57 |
| fijal | I think it has bugs? | 09:57 |
| fijal | or something | 09:57 |
| fijal | I don't remember details | 09:58 |
| fijal | it also inserts tons and tons of increfs/decrefs | 09:58 |
| amaury_ | sure | 09:58 |
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| fijal | arigato: hi | 10:02 |
| arigato | hi | 10:02 |
| fijal | arigato: do you think you can do your "merge closed branches" thing again? | 10:02 |
| fijal | ;-) | 10:02 |
| arigato | :-) | 10:03 |
| arigato | 15 new old branches... | 10:04 |
| arigato | <spam> | 10:05 |
| kenaan | 12arigo concurrent-marksweep 11735c5da06f6c 15/pypy/rpython/memory/gc/concurrentgen.py: Redo the explicit collect(), at least the most useful case. | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 11cf8c8221023a 15/: Merge closed head 0fe83ac4f0da on branch numpy-full-fromstring | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 11fc8babbb0d49 15/: Merge closed head 10e52e09cda7 on branch windows-no-err-dlg | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 11274493f9237a 15/: Merge closed head bae684cd82fb on branch counter-decay | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 11907165accd25 15/: Merge closed head 6b116d5dea60 on branch numpy-faster-setslice | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 1157ce7dbc2991 15/: Merge closed head 93bb4d305fdb on branch nedbat-sandbox-2 | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 116ea46dc2c7b0 15/: Merge closed head cef73b42fc52 on branch numpypy-repr-fix | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 115bfacfad4b18 15/: Merge closed head 2adf19881a7c on branch numpy-dtype-strings | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 114c2484433848 15/: Merge closed head 51e67e28230a on branch numpy-ndim-size | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 111b7c79d96aa3 15/: Merge closed head aaab53d723c0 on branch numpy-sort | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 11cb83722c2596 15/: Merge closed head e1b50a7fd007 on branch numpy-dtype | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 113efb35fc9cd7 15/: Merge closed head 1436740d3b9b on branch numpy-complex | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 116da401a761cc 15/: Merge closed head c260a0d96e73 on branch jit-raw-array-of-struct | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 117aae8a854792 15/: Merge closed head 16ea77edcb5e on branch separate-applevel-numpy | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 118947a5d05606 15/: Merge closed head eb12a969ddf7 on branch import-numpy | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 1184207b40e275 15/: Merge closed head c62c1d1837b7 on branch numpy-concatenate | 10:06 |
| kenaan | 12arigo closed-branches 1177e727fe4df1 15/: re-close this branch | 10:06 |
| arigato | </spam> | 10:06 |
| fijal | thanks | 10:06 |
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| Action: fijal finds it obnouxious when people ask on pypy-dev "when pypy will do X" | 10:10 | |
| fijal | arigato: are you aware that --fork-before completely does not work any more? | 10:13 |
| ChrisMorgan | When will PyPy produce 5KB executables from full Python source code without RPython restrictions? ;-) | 10:13 |
| arigato | fijal: no, I'll look | 10:13 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: never :) | 10:14 |
| arigato | ChrisMorgan: as an unsigned number of days: yesterday | 10:14 |
| ChrisMorgan | Never? =-O | 10:14 |
| fijal | arigato: ok, but last time I looked it was unfixable | 10:14 |
| fijal | arigato: because modules pull rffi which pull rpython | 10:14 |
| ChrisMorgan | And here was me thinking it would merely be in six to eight weeks. | 10:14 |
| arigato | fijal: fork-before=when? | 10:15 |
| fijal | fork-before=rtype | 10:15 |
| fijal | fork-before=annotation probably as well | 10:15 |
| arigato | ah, it's something I don't use any more | 10:15 |
| fijal | ok | 10:15 |
| fijal | so what do you use | 10:15 |
| fijal | fork-before=pyjit | 10:15 |
| fijal | ? | 10:15 |
| arigato | pyjitpl, yes | 10:15 |
| fijal | ok | 10:16 |
| fijal | you can check if this still works, I don't remember, but this one might | 10:16 |
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| arigato | yes, only fork-before=rtype has special rules | 10:17 |
| arigato | it can be fixed by making some imports more local, probably | 10:18 |
| fijal | I heavily doubt | 10:18 |
| fijal | arigato: note, I'm fine with saying "it's unsupported" | 10:20 |
| arigato | ok | 10:21 |
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| fijal | but maybe we should remove it from possibilities then :) | 10:22 |
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| CIA-53 | 03Chris Morgan 07roundup * 10#984/'make' can be 'mingw32-make' on MinGW platform: | 10:33 |
| CIA-53 | [new] On Windows when building with MinGW, the make command will sometimes be named | 10:33 |
| CIA-53 | `mingw32-make.exe` instead of `make.exe`. This patch makes a ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue984 | 10:33 |
| ChrisMorgan | :-) | 10:34 |
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| Nick change: stakkars_ -> stakkars | 10:37 | |
| fijal | arigato: now when I think about it | 10:37 |
| fijal | arigato: can't this model (with passing around GCREFs instead of pointers) be used as a simplified separate compilation approach? | 10:38 |
| fijal | to have a minimal subset of a typesystem that works | 10:38 |
| fijal | and automatically generate wrappers and unwrappers | 10:38 |
| arigato | maaaybe | 10:39 |
| arigato | unclear to me how you solve issues caused by lists, for example | 10:40 |
| fijal | you can strike some balance | 10:41 |
| fijal | like say lists that are exported are always modifiable-resizable | 10:41 |
| Action: fijal is scared by py.test traceback size | 10:45 | |
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| kenaan | 12hager ppc-jit-backend 115152aab1cfbb 15/pypy/jit/backend/test/runner_test.py: remove test_return_pointer because it is obsolete now | 11:01 |
| fijal | arigato: hm, ok, another issue | 11:04 |
| fijal | I have a list of boxes | 11:04 |
| fijal | which becomes an array of GCREFS on lower level | 11:04 |
| fijal | how do I cast them to the correct type? | 11:05 |
| arigato | I don't know | 11:05 |
| fijal | as far as rpython is concerned, it's AbstractValue | 11:05 |
| fijal | (for example) | 11:05 |
| fijal | but it won't work untranslated if I cast it to abstract value | 11:06 |
| fijal | so cast_base_ptr_to_instance(AbstractValue, ptr) will work just fine translated | 11:06 |
| fijal | right? | 11:06 |
| arigato | yes | 11:06 |
| fijal | ok | 11:07 |
| fijal | can I add a hack to cast_base_ptr_to_instance that will just fish the object? | 11:07 |
| fijal | if untranslated | 11:08 |
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| fijal | and check the isinstance | 11:08 |
| arigato | there is such a hack already | 11:08 |
| fijal | oh? | 11:09 |
| fijal | so I can just do that? | 11:09 |
| arigato | I don't know what exactly you're doing | 11:09 |
| fijal | ok | 11:10 |
| fijal | I'll show you in a sec | 11:10 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 114c1b9df9819d 15/pypy/: add some jit hooks, a bit ugly but works | 11:16 |
| fijal | arigato: can you look at the checkin? | 11:16 |
| arigato | yes? | 11:17 |
| fijal | 4c1b9df9819d | 11:18 |
| fijal | this one | 11:18 |
| arigato | well, what should I look for? | 11:18 |
| fijal | does it make any sense to you | 11:18 |
| fijal | the approach | 11:18 |
| arigato | I fear the question is just "does it work" | 11:19 |
| fijal | or if this is precisely what we discussed than looking at the checkin is just confirming that :) | 11:19 |
| fijal | seems so | 11:19 |
| fijal | I'll write a ztest | 11:19 |
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| fijal | arigato: this is more or less what's in llgraph/llimpl.py | 11:21 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 116c698de2d866 15/pypy/: simplify and remove dead code | 11:23 |
| fijal | arigato: no it does not :) | 11:28 |
| fijal | pbc ends up as SomeBuiltin | 11:28 |
| fijal | SomeBuiltin(analyser=<pypy.tool.descriptor.InstanceMethod object at 0x3a88590>, const=<function boxint_new at 0x2e907d0>, methodname='boxint_new', s_self=None) | 11:28 |
| fijal | does not sound quite right | 11:29 |
| fijal | arigato: any idea? | 11:32 |
| fijal | I can commit the test | 11:32 |
| mikefc | fijal: i did try adding some code to lib_pypy/numpy, but i must not have had all the init or import stuff correct as it just plain didn't work. I'll try again tomorrow. off to take over the world now.... | 11:35 |
| fijal | oh | 11:35 |
| fijal | mikefc: sounds right not to add it | 11:35 |
| fijal | pom pom pom | 11:36 |
| fijal | arigato: it's in extregistry :/ | 11:36 |
| fijal | arigato: do you have a hack in mind? | 11:36 |
| fijal | make a copy I guess | 11:37 |
| Action: arigato not really there | 11:37 | |
| fijal | arigato: ok :) | 11:38 |
| fijal | arigato: seems to work though :) | 11:45 |
| arigato | :-) | 11:46 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 1176c53cca9b18 15/pypy/: add stuff to test_ztranslation and make it pass | 11:49 |
| fijal | I don't even want to know how to pass exceptions around for now... | 11:49 |
| fijal | arigato: or this should work? | 11:49 |
| GoGi | i can not run the pypy interpreter from a translated pypy | 11:49 |
| GoGi | I get an AssertionError | 11:49 |
| GoGi | File "/mnt/loc1/py/dev/pypy-pypy-ff4af8f31882/pypy/objspace/std/fake.py", line 53, in fake_type | 11:49 |
| GoGi | assert type(cpy_type) is type | 11:49 |
| GoGi | I can however run pypy from cpython | 11:50 |
| fijal | GoGi: pass --nofaking to the command line | 11:50 |
| fijal | or --allworkingmodules | 11:50 |
| fijal | this is a bug :) | 11:50 |
| GoGi | what is "faking"? | 11:51 |
| fijal | good question | 11:52 |
| fijal | I don't actually know :) | 11:52 |
| amaury_ | it's a way to steal a module from CPython | 11:52 |
| amaury_ | and expose it to the interpreted pypy | 11:52 |
| amaury_ | works for _socket, at least | 11:52 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 1151d2eea00745 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/: an attempt to use the new interface | 11:53 |
| fijal | getting closer :) | 11:54 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 1180d78ac9430f 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/: what's untested is broken | 12:02 |
| ChrisMorgan | Well, on a trivial example, --gc=ref is only about 1.5KB larger on Win32 than --gc=none. But does it work properly? | 12:05 |
| fijal | ref should work if you don't care about speed | 12:06 |
| fijal | it's used for tests | 12:06 |
| fijal | I have no clue if it handles circular refs though | 12:06 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 11ac3f9f68d10e 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/interp_resop.py: bah | 12:07 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 114e244fe6f3f8 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/warmspot.py: run those in a slightly different order, so we rewrite them before jitcodes | 12:30 |
| kenaan | 12fijal translation-time-measurments 116c5f73bd4ec9 15/pypy/annotation/annrpython.py: add some measurments | 12:45 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 1141fea5d51df6 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/: for what is worth, don't look into interp_resop for now. It's hard enough to get this working. | 12:53 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal translation-time-measurments 11cd2fd844ad80 15/pypy/annotation/annrpython.py: style | 13:07 |
| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 115ca484324ef7 15/pypy/jit/backend/x86/assembler.py: I believe this is an actual problem | 13:12 |
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| fijal | pypy.module.sys.hook:3)displayhook takes 14s to trace | 13:26 |
| fijal | nice | 13:26 |
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| fijal | to annotate | 13:27 |
| fijal | er sorry | 13:27 |
| fijal | why???? | 13:27 |
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| arigato | fijal: 5ca484324ef7: uh? | 13:31 |
| fijal | arigato: can it happen? | 13:32 |
| arigato | yes, in rare cases | 13:32 |
| fijal | like what? | 13:32 |
| fijal | well, shouldn't we raise something? | 13:33 |
| fijal | ValueError maybe not | 13:33 |
| fijal | but something like AlreadyCompiledException | 13:33 |
| fijal | and catch it | 13:33 |
| arigato | why? | 13:34 |
| fijal | because people assume compile_bridge would return some meaningful data | 13:34 |
| arigato | it should not return anything | 13:34 |
| fijal | it returns ops_offset on default | 13:34 |
| arigato | for debugging | 13:34 |
| fijal | and a bunch of other stuff on better-jit-hooks | 13:34 |
| fijal | well | 13:35 |
| fijal | you still log the bridge | 13:35 |
| fijal | and you say it got compiled | 13:35 |
| arigato | I would be more happy if the situation was checked for in the front-end | 13:35 |
| arigato | just before calling compile_bridge | 13:35 |
| fijal | yes | 13:35 |
| fijal | precisely because everyone assumes bridge got compiled | 13:35 |
| fijal | it might work by accident | 13:36 |
| fijal | but then it'll stop working one day | 13:36 |
| arigato | ok, but 5ca484324ef7 precisely would be rather high on my "don't do that" list | 13:36 |
| fijal | ok | 13:37 |
| fijal | well, feel free to do something saner | 13:37 |
| fijal | but right now it returns a tuple so returning a None won't work | 13:37 |
| fijal | and this is precisely a thing that would break one day :) | 13:37 |
| arigato | yes, I agree | 13:38 |
| fijal | I broke it and by chance annotator caught it | 13:38 |
| fijal | but really by chance | 13:38 |
| Action: fijal investigates why annotating sys.hook.displayhook takes 14s | 13:38 | |
| antocuni | Alex_Gaynor: https://bitbucket.org/eliben/pyelftools | 13:38 |
| arigato | just saying that this checkin without tests adds a rare "fatal rpython error: ValueError" to the translated pypy, which sounds to me like a very bad idea | 13:38 |
| antocuni | Alex_Gaynor: maybe it can be useful for your better-ffi project | 13:39 |
| fijal | arigato: if None were allowed for a tuple, it would segfault instead of erroring | 13:39 |
| antocuni | (which I still would like to know more about, btw :-)) | 13:39 |
| arigato | fijal: which is even worse, I agree | 13:39 |
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| fijal | arigato: installing multimethods seems to take ~1/3-1/2 of the annotation time btw | 13:44 |
| fijal | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/531313/ | 13:47 |
| fijal | top few graphs by annotation time | 13:47 |
| fijal | (measuring time around processblock, summarized for all blocks) | 13:47 |
| fijal | also, for the tightest loop possible, pypy without thread and signal is 30% faster | 13:51 |
| fijal | 1.0s vs 1.5s | 13:51 |
| ChrisMorgan | fijal: thanks for your help. And thank you to you all! | 13:51 |
| fijal | ChrisMorgan: np | 13:51 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa default 11416009084c6f 15/pypy/module/cpyext/: cpyext: Add support for PyInterpreterState.next. Always NULL, since there is only one interpreter... | 13:51 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa default 11e8a394c064fd 15/pypy/: Fix checkmodule.py for almost all modules | 13:51 |
| kenaan | 12amauryfa default 114bace20eef15 15/pypy/module/cpyext/api.py: cpyext: export Py_ByteArrayType and Py_MemoryViewType | 13:51 |
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| kenaan | 12amauryfa default 1175b3dbc7d326 15/pypy/module/cpyext/: Add stubs for PyObject_GetBuffer: pypy does not yet implement the new buffer interface. | 13:51 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal better-jit-hooks 116249a65d583e 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/: oops, a test and a fix | 13:58 |
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| fijal | cool | 14:27 |
| fijal | how cool is that - http://paste.pocoo.org/show/531325/ | 14:27 |
| fijal | arigato, Alex_Gaynor: ^^^^^ | 14:27 |
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| exarkun | :O | 14:28 |
| antocuni | fijal: scaring :-) | 14:28 |
| fijal | exarkun: I think I opened the gate of hell :) | 14:28 |
| exarkun | I don't know about "cool" | 14:28 |
| exarkun | Maybe "terrifying", yea | 14:28 |
| arigato | :-) | 14:29 |
| fijal | antocuni: well, you can have an assembler backend working on that level | 14:29 |
| antocuni | yep | 14:29 |
| fijal | antocuni: you also have the list of ops | 14:29 |
| antocuni | it's very cool | 14:29 |
| arigato | I fear it's a cool place to put an llvm backend | 14:29 |
| fijal | so you can say hook stuff up so you can test new register allocation | 14:30 |
| antocuni | but still scaring :-) | 14:30 |
| fijal | (for example) | 14:30 |
| fijal | arigato: what do you mean? | 14:30 |
| fijal | antocuni: resops list is not modifyable yet | 14:30 |
| fijal | antocuni: but I'm near that :) | 14:30 |
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| arigato | fijal: just that someone with enough free time can save the ops lists around and later produce code with llvm | 14:31 |
| fijal | arigato: yes, but it has scary connections | 14:32 |
| fijal | like it'll keep up stuff alive etc. | 14:32 |
| arigato | sure | 14:32 |
| fijal | but yeah | 14:32 |
| fijal | it's a first step | 14:32 |
| fijal | I'm seriously looking forward to not having recompile pypy because I tweaked some optimization | 14:32 |
| fijal | anyway, it has huge cool factor :) | 14:33 |
| arigato | yes :-) | 14:33 |
| Da_Blitz | this dosent mean the JIT will be able to JIT itself one day soon does it? | 14:35 |
| Arfrever (~Arfrever@apache/committer/Arfrever) got lost in the net-split. | 14:36 | |
| fijal | Da_Blitz: in a way it does | 14:36 |
| Action: Da_Blitz needs a very strong drink then | 14:36 | |
| fijal | antocuni: note that we now can simply not use subprocess at all in test_pypy_c | 14:42 |
| antocuni | fijal: because we can get the resops directly from the hooks? That's cool, indeed | 14:42 |
| fijal | yes | 14:42 |
| fijal | and also you get real code objects as arguments | 14:43 |
| fijal | which is of unclear gain :) | 14:45 |
| Action: fijal surf break | 14:45 | |
| GoGi | is cpyext support enabled automatically? | 14:47 |
| GoGi | shouldn't this create some sort of shared library? | 14:47 |
| exarkun | maybe it does, I don't remember, but shouldn't you be more interested in a header file? | 14:49 |
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| exarkun | cpyext is for supporting CPython C extension modules, not for embedding PyPy in a C program | 14:50 |
| GoGi | ah yes a header file | 14:50 |
| GoGi | and the compiled C extension module then can be loaded somehow | 14:51 |
| GoGi | in pypy | 14:51 |
| exarkun | yes | 14:51 |
| exarkun | it all works the same way on PyPy as it does on CPython | 14:51 |
| exarkun | just replace "/usr/bin/python" with "/path/to/pypy-c" in all the steps | 14:51 |
| exarkun | eg "pypy-c setup.py install" | 14:51 |
| GoGi | I see | 14:52 |
| GoGi | how well does this work? | 14:53 |
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| exarkun | well, there's like 80 million C APIs exposed by CPython | 14:55 |
| exarkun | and PyPy supports like 40 million of them exactly correctly | 14:55 |
| exarkun | and maybe another 20 million of them sort of correctly but not quite | 14:55 |
| exarkun | and doesn't support the rest at all | 14:55 |
| exarkun | if you're using an extension module that uses all exactly correctly supported APIs, then you'll have no problem :) | 14:56 |
| exarkun | otherwise you might run into some snags | 14:56 |
| GoGi | if a C-extension module does not install with pypy-c setup.py install then it will be because one of those problems? | 14:57 |
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| tumbleweed | or because it uses a bit of the C API that hasn't been implemented in pypy yet | 14:58 |
| exarkun | possibly, but there could be other problems | 14:58 |
| exarkun | eg some distutils incompatiblity | 14:58 |
| exarkun | or perhaps some entirely different category of problems I know nothing about | 14:58 |
| exarkun | it's usually easier to try and see than to predict :) | 14:58 |
| GoGi | ok | 14:58 |
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| kenaan | 12antocuni extradoc 11218b3a396820 15/sprintinfo/leysin-winter-2012/people.txt: my dates | 17:01 |
| arigato | antocuni: thank you :-) | 17:03 |
| antocuni | you're welcome :-) | 17:03 |
| antocuni | I am of course willing to share the room with someone else | 17:03 |
| antocuni | also, I *might* decide to arrive on the 15th evening instead of the 16th, but I'll know only few days before. Would that be a problem? | 17:04 |
| arigato | no | 17:04 |
| antocuni | good :-) | 17:04 |
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| arigato | antocuni: just, please write it down in people.txt, too | 17:13 |
| antocuni | ok | 17:13 |
| arigato | thanks | 17:13 |
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| kenaan | 12antocuni extradoc 114f9fc086064f 15/sprintinfo/leysin-winter-2012/people.txt: add a note about my dates | 17:15 |
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| kenaan | 12rguillebert extradoc 1109006ec5a359 15/sprintinfo/leysin-winter-2012/people.txt: Add myself | 17:28 |
| kenaan | 12rguillebert extradoc 119601f2597df0 15/sprintinfo/leysin-winter-2012/people.txt: Merge heads | 17:28 |
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| kenaan | 12arigo concurrent-marksweep 1138b03b6eef08 15/pypy/rpython/memory/gc/concurrentgen.py: Random progress. | 18:08 |
| kenaan | 12arigo concurrent-marksweep 1173514c0443a5 15/pypy/rpython/memory/gc/concurrentgen.py: Tweak tweak tweak. | 18:08 |
| kenaan | 12arigo concurrent-marksweep 112a11fde484ba 15/pypy/rpython/memory/gc/concurrentgen.py: fix. now test_direct passes | 18:08 |
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| rguillebert | arigato, I'm definitely coming but I was waiting to order my train tickets before writing any dates :) | 18:20 |
| arigato | rguillebert: thanks for adding yourself :-) | 18:20 |
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| arigato | aaaaaaargh | 18:22 |
| rguillebert | arigato, can I buy tickets at train stations ? (I can't order Aigle-Leysin tickets on the SNCF website) | 18:22 |
| arigato | "pypy translate.py" misbehaves obscurely with pypy 1.7.0 release | 18:22 |
| arigato | rguillebert: :-( | 18:22 |
| arigato | yes | 18:22 |
| rguillebert | thx | 18:23 |
| arigato | if you really want you can also order it online | 18:23 |
| arigato | http://www.cff.ch | 18:23 |
| arigato | but it's easy at the station's machines | 18:23 |
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| rguillebert | I don't trust French trains so I prefer not to pick a specific train :) | 18:24 |
| arigato | :-) | 18:24 |
| arigato | :-( :-( :-( it stops misbehaving if I print local variables in the loop, of course | 18:25 |
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| arigato | but not if I try a more recent pypy | 18:26 |
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| rguillebert | I had an assertion error the last time I tried | 18:27 |
| arigato | :-( | 18:27 |
| arigato | that's at least better, somehow | 18:27 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: very cool | 18:31 |
| Alex_Gaynor | antocuni: sorry I haven't been working on my ffi much lately, I got stuck in a "what should the type system be like" issue :/ | 18:31 |
| antocuni | Alex_Gaynor: good question | 18:33 |
| antocuni | Alex_Gaynor: do you have a repo, btw? | 18:34 |
| Alex_Gaynor | antocuni: let me put it online, it's just docs ATM | 18:34 |
| Alex_Gaynor | antocuni: https://github.com/alex/yaffi | 18:36 |
| antocuni | Yet Another FFI, I suppose :-) | 18:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | yes :) | 18:36 |
| antocuni | ok, I'll read it | 18:37 |
| CIA-53 | 03arigo 07roundup * 10#985/jit bug: | 18:39 |
| CIA-53 | [new] Running "pypy x.py" on the attached x.py throws it into an infinite loop. | 18:39 |
| CIA-53 | Tested on linux32, both the release 1.7.0 and the latest nightly ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue985 | 18:39 |
| Alex_Gaynor | antocuni: I can give you commit so you can update it | 18:40 |
| antocuni | yes please, although I don't promise anything :-) | 18:42 |
| antocuni | surely not tomorrow, as I'm going skiing | 18:42 |
| Alex_Gaynor | antocuni: sounds much more fun than finding how to bolt C's type system on top of Python | 18:43 |
| antocuni | definitely :-) | 18:43 |
| CIA-53 | 03danchr 07roundup * 10#986/Problems with timezones in datetime.datetime: (log message trimmed) | 18:48 |
| CIA-53 | [new] Try running the following little script: | 18:48 |
| CIA-53 | ========= | 18:48 |
| CIA-53 | import datetime, os, time | 18:48 |
| CIA-53 | os.putenv('TZ', 'GMT') * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue986 | 18:48 |
| danchr | ^^^ seen in Mercurial | 18:49 |
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| CIA-53 | 03arigo 07roundup * 10#986/Problems with timezones in datetime.datetime: | 18:53 |
| CIA-53 | [chatting] This is (partly?) due to differences between datetime.py and the built-in | 18:53 |
| CIA-53 | datetime of CPython. If I replace "import datetime" with "i ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue986 | 18:53 |
| exarkun | That looks familiar. | 18:53 |
| exarkun | A rounding difference | 18:53 |
| exarkun | https://bugs.pypy.org/issue972 | 18:54 |
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| arigato | yes | 18:55 |
| arigato | Alex_Gaynor: reading yaffi's docs: | 18:56 |
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| arigato | do we really need Types at all? | 18:57 |
| arigato | in the public API of yaffi I mean | 18:57 |
| Alex_Gaynor | arigato: well, you need something that results are an instance of, and you need something to expose as function.result_type/arg_types | 18:58 |
| Alex_Gaynor | arigato: are do you suggest to use int/float/etc. and widen all things? | 18:58 |
| arigato | no | 18:58 |
| arigato | I'm just wondering if we need to expose the function.result_type/arg_types at all, but maybe it's convenient | 18:58 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I think it's convenient | 18:59 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I have some idea about allowing "upcasting rules" or something, so you can't change the result type's lowl leve, but you can have a rule. e.g. some libraries use char for bool, allowing some sort of CharBool auto conversion or such | 18:59 |
| Alex_Gaynor | also, for tests :) | 19:00 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Anyway, even if you don't expose those, what type is x(*args) | 19:00 |
| arigato | what is x? | 19:00 |
| Alex_Gaynor | x is some library function | 19:01 |
| arigato | hum, sorry, I'm confused | 19:02 |
| fijal | arigato: want me to look into your JIT bug? | 19:02 |
| Alex_Gaynor | let's say you do yaffi.Library("m").sqrt(3), what type is the result? | 19:02 |
| Alex_Gaynor | is it just float, or yaffi.c_types.double | 19:02 |
| arigato | PrimitiveType(42) represents what? the value 42? or the type int? | 19:02 |
| Alex_Gaynor | PrimitiveType would be a superclass of Integer, which is a superclass of say Int{8,16,32,64} | 19:03 |
| Alex_Gaynor | so Int8(42) is an instance | 19:03 |
| Alex_Gaynor | with the value 42 | 19:03 |
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| arigato | so Type is not at all the class of types, confusingly | 19:04 |
| Alex_Gaynor | PrimitiveType would be a subclass of Type | 19:04 |
| arigato | yes | 19:04 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: let me add to "why not ctypes" | 19:04 |
| fijal | API is very inconsistent | 19:04 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: do you have a github account? | 19:05 |
| arigato | I'm just a bit confused by a class called "Type" whose instances are not types at all | 19:05 |
| fijal | I think so | 19:05 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: what's wrong with lltype typesystem btw? | 19:05 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: it doesn't support value structs, for one. plus it's not really nice in terms of type heirarchy | 19:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: I just gave someone named fijal commit, please tell me it was you :) | 19:06 |
| fijal | what are value structs? | 19:06 |
| fijal | seems it's me | 19:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | struct c { int x; int y; } int main() { struct c x; x.x = 3; } | 19:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: feel free to add whatever to the docs, try to keep them organized though | 19:07 |
| fijal | you mean stack allocs? | 19:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | yes | 19:08 |
| fijal | how would you use it? | 19:08 |
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| fijal | like with scoped_alloc? | 19:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | some sort of API that gives you the address | 19:08 |
| fijal | with scoped alloc would do that | 19:09 |
| fijal | in the presence of JIT | 19:09 |
| fijal | if you don't have a JIT you have no scoping, so you need to malloc | 19:10 |
| fijal | anyway, I'm kinda happy with lltype/rffi | 19:10 |
| fijal | maybe with a bit brushed API | 19:10 |
| Alex_Gaynor | yes, that's the whole point :) | 19:10 |
| fijal | ok | 19:10 |
| fijal | anyway, I would keep it more or less 1-1 with lltype/rffi | 19:10 |
| Alex_Gaynor | lltype/rffi are designed for RPython, so you don't need to worry about type heirarchies, because you don't have that at runtime | 19:10 |
| fijal | yes | 19:10 |
| fijal | also rffi_platform is kinda cool | 19:11 |
| fijal | it can also check your declarations | 19:11 |
| fijal | if they make sense | 19:11 |
| fijal | that's another thing that's wrong with ctypes | 19:11 |
| arigato | NB: it may not be a bad idea to not have all primitive types Int8,16,etc. | 19:11 |
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| arigato | at least I can think of a minimal API were this is not needed | 19:12 |
| fijal | arigato: how would you declare a function that accepts 16bit int? | 19:12 |
| arigato | and the point is that in C you don't usually worry about casting between the various integer sizes | 19:12 |
| fijal | you still need to know precise structure layout and function args | 19:13 |
| fijal | maybe you don't need values of those types | 19:13 |
| fijal | but you need to be able to specify it | 19:13 |
| arigato | fijal: not if that is gotten for you from debug data | 19:13 |
| fijal | yes ok | 19:13 |
| fijal | but I would at least leave the explicit way of specifying it | 19:14 |
| arigato | after all, when you run gdb you expect to be able to write lines of C code and they work without predeclaring anything | 19:14 |
| arigato | in particular, you can't explicitly declare stuff | 19:14 |
| fijal | true | 19:14 |
| arigato | (not saying it's the ultimate solution) | 19:14 |
| Alex_Gaynor | My idea for part 2 of the tutorial is to reimplement bits of the resource module | 19:14 |
| fijal | I kind of like the idea of having C-like declarations | 19:15 |
| Alex_Gaynor | ? | 19:15 |
| fijal | so you can copy-paste (almost) a line from .h file | 19:15 |
| fijal | declaring a function | 19:15 |
| Alex_Gaynor | like luajit's ffi? | 19:15 |
| fijal | yes | 19:15 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it's a total mess when you have extra fields based on the preprocessor | 19:15 |
| fijal | this has the advantage that if API is more complex, you can still generate C and compile .so | 19:15 |
| fijal | that's the whole point | 19:16 |
| fijal | if preprocessor is heavily used, you *don't* want to specify all the details | 19:16 |
| Alex_Gaynor | that's why I prefer the DWARF data, it's known to be correct | 19:16 |
| fijal | gdb is useless | 19:16 |
| fijal | for such stuff | 19:16 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: how will you deal with macro-based APIs? | 19:16 |
| Alex_Gaynor | that's a problem with the API. | 19:16 |
| Alex_Gaynor | If it's not in the ABI, it's broken for *any* FFI. | 19:16 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it's not like ctypes handles them | 19:17 |
| exarkun | But how will you deal with them? :) | 19:17 |
| fijal | no | 19:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | exarkun: I won't. | 19:17 |
| fijal | but I would like to be able to deal with it | 19:17 |
| exarkun | :( | 19:17 |
| fijal | same with unspecified structs | 19:17 |
| fijal | I would | 19:17 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: we have support for that in RPython btw | 19:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: you can't deal with it without a compiler at runtime | 19:17 |
| fijal | at least partial and unfinished | 19:17 |
| fijal | so? | 19:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | and the stdlib can't assume one of those | 19:17 |
| Alex_Gaynor | so it's not appropriate for this lib | 19:17 |
| exarkun | Why not? | 19:17 |
| fijal | you can have a compiler at runtime and generate pieces of C that you can ship | 19:17 |
| fijal | er | 19:18 |
| fijal | pieces of .so that are more regular | 19:18 |
| exarkun | Alex_Gaynor: Either you have a compiler at runtime, in which case you can use it, hooray | 19:18 |
| exarkun | Alex_Gaynor: Or you don't, and it won't work | 19:18 |
| Alex_Gaynor | yes, you can write a tool that generates a C lib for macros, that's orthagonal to this lib | 19:18 |
| fijal | no it's not | 19:18 |
| exarkun | How is that worse than never working? | 19:18 |
| fijal | I would like to use a single API for both | 19:18 |
| fijal | I don't really want to care about whether stuff is using macros or not | 19:18 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: real world is complex | 19:18 |
| fijal | I want a reasonable alternative to CPython C API | 19:19 |
| fijal | not to ctypes | 19:19 |
| fijal | a thing that does not deal with macros is not | 19:19 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: note that we have the same problem in RPython and we dealt with it, it's not impossible | 19:19 |
| Alex_Gaynor | RPython invokes a compiler whenever it feels like it | 19:19 |
| fijal | yes | 19:19 |
| fijal | but you can be in the same position as CPython C API | 19:20 |
| fijal | either you have a compiler or if you don't you need a .so generated by the compiler | 19:20 |
| fijal | that is fair | 19:20 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'm not aware of any other dynamic language FFI that supports macros | 19:21 |
| exarkun | So what? | 19:21 |
| exarkun | It's clearly a useful thing to support. | 19:21 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: that does not answer my question :) | 19:21 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it's not clearly a necessary thing to support. | 19:21 |
| exarkun | Nothing is necessary | 19:21 |
| exarkun | PyPy isn't necessary | 19:21 |
| exarkun | Python isn't necessary | 19:21 |
| exarkun | So what? It's _useful_. | 19:21 |
| Alex_Gaynor | necessary for anyone to use this as a real library | 19:22 |
| exarkun | I want to rewrite pyOpenSSL, not in C | 19:22 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'd maybe consider optionally invoking a compiler, but for now simpler is better. | 19:22 |
| exarkun | Half of OpenSSL is macros | 19:22 |
| Alex_Gaynor | has anyone suggested to the OpenSSL devs that the universe of people not writing C hate them ;) | 19:22 |
| exarkun | That's irrelevant. | 19:22 |
| exarkun | If you don't want to support macros - whatever, that's obviously up to you, it's not like I'm going to do any work to help you | 19:23 |
| CIA-53 | 03stefanor 07roundup * 10#987/AppTestSocket.test_unix_socket_connect can fail when TMPDIR is long: | 19:23 |
| CIA-53 | [new] module/_socket/test/test_sock_app.py: | 19:23 |
| CIA-53 | def test_unix_socket_connect(self): | 19:23 |
| CIA-53 | import _socket, os | 19:23 |
| CIA-53 | if not hasattr(_socket ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue987 | 19:23 |
| exarkun | But you're leaving out _useful_ functionality | 19:23 |
| exarkun | Don't pretend otherwise | 19:23 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'll consider macros, but solving that is totally orthagonal to all the other API decisions that need to be solved. | 19:23 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: no, simpler is not better now | 19:25 |
| fijal | and it's not orthogonal | 19:25 |
| fijal | you have to have a story | 19:25 |
| fijal | such a lib without macros is as useful as ctypes - noone uses it unless he has to | 19:25 |
| Alex_Gaynor | macros are not the reason I don't use ctypes much | 19:26 |
| fijal | let me put it otherwise | 19:26 |
| fijal | we need a good story for making modules in pypy | 19:26 |
| fijal | now we have none | 19:26 |
| fijal | a better ffi that does not attack macros/errno and such is not a good story | 19:27 |
| fijal | even if it's better than a current one | 19:27 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'm saying if you build this good FFI, a macro tool can be built on top of it/next to it. | 19:27 |
| fijal | and ctypes without ctypes_configure is completely useless | 19:27 |
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| fijal | I'm with exarkun on that - I want a good story | 19:29 |
| fijal | and your API might depend on using vs non-using macros | 19:29 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: anyway, back to better-jit-hooks | 19:31 |
| fijal | what do you want? | 19:31 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: on_compile with resops (introspectable), asm, code. on_abort hopefully. JIT/GC flags. | 19:32 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Those are the most important ones | 19:33 |
| Alex_Gaynor | after that, some sort of events/timeline thing | 19:33 |
| Alex_Gaynor | one at a time though :) | 19:33 |
| fijal | ah, you want summary data | 19:33 |
| fijal | well, resops kinda work | 19:33 |
| fijal | they don't have all attrs | 19:33 |
| Alex_Gaynor | do they have name, offset and a way to get the repr? | 19:35 |
| fijal | they have a number, an offset and __repr__ | 19:35 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | do debug merge points have their metadata? | 19:37 |
| fijal | no | 19:39 |
| fijal | what do you want? | 19:39 |
| fijal | there is code though | 19:39 |
| Alex_Gaynor | the codeobject I guess | 19:39 |
| fijal | and for other merge points? | 19:39 |
| Alex_Gaynor | not sure what for regex, ideally something that can get me the pattern, but I don't know if that' s possible | 19:39 |
| Alex_Gaynor | for numpy I'd love either something I can call debug_repr on, or the debug_repr directly if that's easier | 19:40 |
| Alex_Gaynor | it would be cool if you would calculate the opcode idx on python merge points, but I guess that's something I can fish for | 19:40 |
| fijal | debug_repr is in location_str these days | 19:40 |
| fijal | you can get opcode_idx as well | 19:40 |
| Alex_Gaynor | ah, good enough | 19:40 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I want opcode_idx for each python merge point, is that exposed, or do I need to fihs? | 19:41 |
| fijal | it's easy to expose | 19:41 |
| fijal | (it's not yet) | 19:41 |
| fijal | we have a function that fishes this stuff from boxes of debug_merge_point | 19:41 |
| Alex_Gaynor | cool, basically I want all the things :) once I finish with the current display I'll start working on tracebin.py + upload view | 19:41 |
| fijal | ok | 19:42 |
| fijal | did you get my concerns about CSS?? | 19:42 |
| Alex_Gaynor | no | 19:42 |
| fijal | so, I like the current jitviewer more | 19:43 |
| fijal | for few reasons | 19:43 |
| Alex_Gaynor | personally, once the width issues are fixed I think it's much more readabl | 19:43 |
| fijal | what are width issues? | 19:43 |
| Alex_Gaynor | you get a horizontal scrollbar on resops quite a bit | 19:44 |
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| fijal | yes, this sucks a lot | 19:44 |
| fijal | also, I like the indentation quite a bit more | 19:44 |
| fijal | and opcode specs instead of debug_merge_points | 19:44 |
| fijal | so the 3-level-indent thingie is quite cool | 19:44 |
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| fijal | and line number should be slightly less prominent | 19:45 |
| Alex_Gaynor | yes, I plan to do opcode spec, and have highlighting vars, and everything else | 19:45 |
| fijal | cool | 19:46 |
| Alex_Gaynor | the design definitely isn't final, but I think overall it looks nicer this way | 19:46 |
| fijal | ok so "that way" being which part? | 19:47 |
| fijal | the resops themselves or everything else? | 19:47 |
| Alex_Gaynor | ? | 19:47 |
| fijal | everything around or the list of resops | 19:47 |
| fijal | or which part is final and I can complain about :) | 19:47 |
| Alex_Gaynor | the list of resops is worse ATM, because no highlighting, scrolling, and no debug merge point things | 19:47 |
| fijal | ah ok | 19:47 |
| Alex_Gaynor | but I think the way we show python vs. resops is better | 19:47 |
| fijal | I can't say :) | 19:48 |
| fijal | but I think colors, line numbers, indentation is worse | 19:48 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I still have to work on inlining and bridges as well, but for now, it's a start | 19:48 |
| fijal | but maybe once we do everything I can really tell you | 19:48 |
| Alex_Gaynor | btw we need to start tutorial soon | 19:48 |
| fijal | oh yes | 19:49 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: can you review better-jit-hooks btw>? | 19:49 |
| fijal | it should work and be mergeable | 19:49 |
| Alex_Gaynor | i'll review in a few minutes | 19:49 |
| fijal | cool | 19:49 |
| Alex_Gaynor | going to make myself some hot chocolate first | 19:49 |
| fijal | ok | 19:50 |
| fijal | I think I should sleep | 19:50 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I overflowed todo list | 19:50 |
| fijal | but I guess I need to start closing tickets regarding numpy | 19:50 |
| fijal | write a blog post | 19:50 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: yes, blog post | 20:00 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: I'll review now and leave a REVIEW.txt | 20:00 |
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| kenaan | 12fijal default 11cc8f110fc52d 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: merge import-numpy, rename numpypy to _numpypy | 20:01 |
| kenaan | 12fijal default 117bb8b38d8563 15/lib_pypy/numpypy/__init__.py: create applevel part here | 20:01 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: ^^^ | 20:02 |
| Alex_Gaynor | cool | 20:02 |
| CIA-53 | 03fijal 07roundup * 10#981/micronumpy 'fromnumeric' patch: | 20:03 |
| CIA-53 | Hey. I created lib_pypy/numpypy which imports stuff from _numpypy that is a mixed | 20:03 |
| CIA-53 | module. Can you provide patch against the current trunk and mo ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue981 | 20:03 |
| fijal | that "reviews" one ticket ;-) | 20:04 |
| kenaan | 12alex_gaynor better-jit-hooks 11ae6912658a2f 15/: merged default in | 20:21 |
| kenaan | 12alex_gaynor better-jit-hooks 111c83e7759323 15/REVIEW.rst: review notes | 20:21 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: why we should not use locals()? | 20:24 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: I find it super hard to read, and the JIT doesn't like it | 20:25 |
| fijal | it's as hard to read as using normal variables no? | 20:25 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I find it harder than just doing {"jumpdescr": jumpdescr} | 20:25 |
| fijal | like what's the difference | 20:25 |
| fijal | between | 20:25 |
| fijal | ResOp('int_add', descr=descr) | 20:25 |
| fijal | and | 20:26 |
| fijal | "int_add(descr=descr)" | 20:26 |
| fijal | why is it harder to read? | 20:26 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I don't understand | 20:26 |
| Alex_Gaynor | (does int_add even have a descr?) | 20:26 |
| fijal | one is withing """ the other is a normal local usage | 20:26 |
| fijal | why do we have to be specific in one case and not the other? | 20:26 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I don't understand teh question, where do we write int_add() instead of ResOp('int_add')? | 20:27 |
| fijal | if we parse we do int_add inside a string | 20:27 |
| fijal | otherwise we write ResOperation | 20:27 |
| fijal | right? | 20:27 |
| Alex_Gaynor | oh, because that's a DSL, not python | 20:27 |
| fijal | yes | 20:28 |
| Alex_Gaynor | locals() is called in the python code though :) | 20:28 |
| Alex_Gaynor | whatever, it isn't worth this much effort to discuss | 20:28 |
| fijal | ok, I would leave it | 20:28 |
| fijal | portal - I think we don't | 20:28 |
| fijal | * ``interp_reso.pyp:wrap_greenkey()`` should do something useful on non-pypyjit jds. | 20:29 |
| fijal | yes it should | 20:29 |
| fijal | it's however hard :/ | 20:29 |
| Alex_Gaynor | can you just respond to the REVIEW.rst, I'm going to go walk around | 20:29 |
| fijal | I would leave it for now as there is not really much we can do | 20:29 |
| fijal | I think all your points are bogus :) | 20:29 |
| fijal | or to-be-implemented-after merge | 20:29 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I'm going to sleep, chat tomorrow | 20:30 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: also IMO locals can be fast | 20:39 |
| fijal | in some cases :) | 20:39 |
| fijal | not this one I guess | 20:39 |
| fijal | well no | 20:39 |
| fijal | it can be fast in all cases | 20:39 |
| fijal | there is no reason to force it | 20:39 |
| fijal | arigato: ping | 20:39 |
| Alex_Gaynor | the only way you can not force is if you unroll it | 20:40 |
| fijal | and? | 20:44 |
| fijal | is it bad? | 20:44 |
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| kenaan | 12mattip numpypy-axisops 11f3a9a6a5871d 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: add jit_merge_point | 21:04 |
| kenaan | 12mattip numpypy-axisops 11579c843af22b 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: jit_merge_point translates, zjit test for sum() of 2d array fails | 21:04 |
| CIA-53 | 03fijal 07roundup * 10#982/micronumpy std()/var() patch: Same as 981, please have a look at my addition to the discussion. * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue982 | 21:04 |
| fijal | mattip: hi | 21:04 |
| mattip | hi | 21:04 |
| mattip | I'm trying to do my own homework, getting the zjit test into place. | 21:05 |
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| fijal | cool | 21:05 |
| fijal | want some feedback? | 21:05 |
| mattip | I'm wondering what the third argument in this error statement means: | 21:06 |
| mattip | debug_merge_point(0, 'numpy ReduceSig(add. Scalar. Array) [2 dims.reduce]') | 21:06 |
| mattip | "2 dims.reduce"? | 21:06 |
| fijal | 2 dims is the length of array shape | 21:07 |
| fijal | (we compile different assembler per different dimension) | 21:07 |
| fijal | reduce is the name of jitpoint | 21:07 |
| mattip | Ahh, so this is printed by the last known jitpoint, with the arguments to the jitpoint? | 21:08 |
| fijal | "the last known"? | 21:08 |
| fijal | debug_merge_point is emitted each time you see a jit_merge_point while tracing | 21:09 |
| mattip | now I understand, that's why it starts with "merge_point"! | 21:09 |
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| mattip | OK, last merge_point traversed. | 21:09 |
| mattip | thanks. | 21:12 |
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| CIA-53 | 03fijal 07roundup * 10#985/jit bug: | 21:18 |
| CIA-53 | [chatting] For what is worth, it looks like it'll finish just very slowly. It's tracing with | 21:18 |
| CIA-53 | some absymal speed (and only tracing). We never rea ... * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue985 | 21:18 |
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| CIA-53 | 03agaynor 07roundup * 10#985/jit bug: (log message trimmed) | 21:25 |
| CIA-53 | The opcodes: | 21:25 |
| CIA-53 | >>>> import dis | 21:25 |
| CIA-53 | >>>> def f(): | 21:25 |
| CIA-53 | .... for c in x: * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue985 | 21:25 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: it does not miss the backjump | 21:26 |
| fijal | that's not the point | 21:26 |
| fijal | everything is working fine | 21:26 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: why does it trace forever then? | 21:26 |
| fijal | I don't know | 21:26 |
| fijal | besides the trace ends on jit_merge_point | 21:26 |
| fijal | so at any bytecode | 21:26 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I think it does not close because some stuff does not match or so | 21:34 |
| fijal | it's a question for hakan | 21:34 |
| fijal | hakanardo: | 21:34 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: can I merge the better-jit-hooks branch? | 21:35 |
| fijal | I can explain you other points | 21:35 |
| Alex_Gaynor | let me think about it until tomorrow | 21:35 |
| fijal | ok | 21:36 |
| fijal | mattip: do you want any specific feedback? | 21:37 |
| mattip | If you're bored :) I would be happy if you could take a look. | 21:39 |
| mattip | in test_zjit I added a axissum test, it currently creates a 2d array and calls sum() | 21:40 |
| mattip | eventually it will call sum(0) | 21:40 |
| mattip | but test_zjit is failing with "negative list getitem index out of bound" | 21:41 |
| fijal | oh that is bad | 21:41 |
| mattip | that's test_zjit -k axissum | 21:41 |
| fijal | did you try identical test in test_compile/test_numarray? | 21:42 |
| mattip | yup. Passes | 21:42 |
| fijal | because that means the implementation is probably buggy and your tests are not good enough, no? | 21:42 |
| mattip | But I am trying to just test the current (non-axis) implementation. | 21:42 |
| mattip | in interp_ufunc.py | 21:43 |
| fijal | ok | 21:44 |
| fijal | let me have a look | 21:44 |
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| mattip | hmm. trying the test in a pypy running over python works too. | 21:47 |
| fijal_ | ah | 21:47 |
| fijal_ | mattip: obviously you need a value | 21:47 |
| fijal_ | otherwise tests explode | 21:47 |
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| Nick change: fijal_ -> fijal | 21:48 | |
| kenaan | 12fijal numpypy-axisops 11a65f5ec8c18b 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/test/test_zjit.py: improve the error message | 21:49 |
| fijal | mattip: I hope this will clarify | 21:49 |
| mattip | did I write the zjit test improperly? | 21:49 |
| fijal | well "yes" in a way | 21:49 |
| fijal | it must return some value | 21:49 |
| fijal | like last operation has to have some value | 21:50 |
| fijal | like read element | 21:50 |
| fijal | I improved the exception though | 21:50 |
| mattip | I think I see the problem. Thanks. | 21:50 |
| mattip | fijal : that test now runs, thanks. | 21:56 |
| mikefc | fijal: I tried doing the lib_pypy/numpy thing yesterday. but obviously I don't know module stuff. If I add a file under lib_pypy/numpypy, the methods in that file aren't being added to numpypy. Do I need to add something extra to tell it? | 22:09 |
| mikefc | e.g. I added fromnumeric.py with just "def std(a) return a" | 22:09 |
| mikefc | but std() isn't added to numpypy | 22:10 |
| fijal | mikefc: no :) | 22:10 |
| fijal | that's the whole point | 22:10 |
| fijal | numpypy in lib_pypy behaves like a normal python module | 22:10 |
| mikefc | OK. I know I don't understand modules well enough, but do i need to add "from fromnumeric import *" to the __init__.py in lib_pypy/numpypy? I thought modules automatically pulled in all the function defs? | 22:14 |
| Action: mikefc is stoopid | 22:14 | |
| fijal | mikefc: read about python modules | 22:15 |
| fijal | really, you can't guess it and me explaining misses the point quite a bit | 22:16 |
| fijal | it's nicely documented :) | 22:16 |
| mikefc | ok. sorry. i gotta go read hg docs as well. need to start doing stuff in local branches. | 22:20 |
| mattip | fijal: as long as you're still around, here http://paste.pocoo.org/show/531502/ is what the check_simple_loop is reporting. | 22:21 |
| mattip | for my jit_merge_point, after modifying compile and test_zjit | 22:22 |
| mattip | that's it for now. It's late | 22:25 |
| kenaan | 12mattip numpypy-axisops 11834eda1cb2d7 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: add optional arguments to sum in compile, axissum test now runs in test_zjit | 22:26 |
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| fijal | mattip: that's not bad | 22:30 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: what you think? | 22:30 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: about what? | 22:30 |
| fijal | the matti's paste | 22:31 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: this is for a sum on an axis? | 22:31 |
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| fijal | yes | 22:34 |
| Alex_Gaynor | no, it doesn't look right. why is there a call? that's the guard class? | 22:35 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'd like to see the log itself | 22:35 |
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| fijal_ | Alex_Gaynor: of course it's wrong | 22:42 |
| fijal_ | but "not too bad for the first jit exposure" | 22:42 |
| fijal_ | :) | 22:42 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | fijal_: write the blog post so we can show off how nice our "fast ndarry library is" | 22:45 |
| Nick change: fijal_ -> fijal | 22:45 | |
| fijal | people will piss on us because we don't beat C :/ | 22:45 |
| fijal | but ok | 22:45 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: we somke numpy's ndarray :) | 22:46 |
| fijal | probably not carefully tweaked cython | 22:52 |
| mikefc | fijal: i see you created a branch to "import numpy's pure python". How did that go? | 22:55 |
| fijal | mikefc: not very good, whatever was useful is merged | 22:55 |
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| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-macosx-x86-32/builds/769 | 23:00 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/197 | 23:00 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/1006 | 23:00 |
| bbot2 | Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64-2/builds/25 | 23:00 |
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| CIA-53 | 03mikefc 07roundup * 10#982/micronumpy std()/var() patch: | 23:35 |
| CIA-53 | This patch (v2) now only adds code for the ndarray var() and std() methods at the | 23:35 |
| CIA-53 | interp level. * 14https://bugs.pypy.org/issue982 | 23:35 |
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| Unhelpful | their gralloc though | 23:51 |
| Unhelpful | gr. | 23:52 |
| Unhelpful | sorry that was for an android dev channel. touchpad bump. :/ | 23:52 |
| --- Sun Jan 8 2012 | 00:00 | |
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